Analyzing...
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Thank you. We have our next question coming from the line of Ms. Swati Madnani from Madhwani Wealth Solutions LLP. Please go ahead.
Sir, last con‐call, you mentioned about water cooler. Can you give us some details about the new products in your pipeline?
Their product development is going on. And BIS is also applicable in the product. So, after the final manufacturing design, the product will go to BIS. So, it is possible that we will be able to start our work from the end of the first quarter next year. Okay, sir. It is FY26? Yes. First quarter.
: Page 14 of 20 Okay. Any other questions? No, that's it. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the next question comes from the line of Resha Mehta from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Actually, I joined late, so I'm not sure if this question has been asked or not. But, the margin profile that we have seen in Q3, it has become 6%. So, now how will we go back to the 8%‐10% band? And what timeline will we reach back to the margins? And the related question is that because our two new plants will start commercial production, so their fixed costs will start. So where do we see the margins going?
Regarding margin profile, the main reason for the EBITDA compromise is that the new vertical is coming, in that the recruitment, labor, travelling, all the expenditures have started. There a lot of premarketing activities. So the cost has started incurring in our books, but its contribution or sales has not started. Now in Q4 major contribution will come and the majority expenditure has been in the books. Maybe only a portion can be added. The rest is the majority of the expenses. As soon as sales increase or business starts according to our expectations, the margin will be back to normal. Secondly, what will be the margin for this year's EBITDA? We will achieve a topline of Rs. 500 crore this year. So, we will be able to generate the EBITDA of around 9.5% this year.
Okay. And sir, when we say that we will come to normal margins once these two plants start the revenue contribution, what does normal margins mean? Is it 9 to 10% or?
We have kept the margin of the EBITDA of 9.5% to 10.5% to the topline of 1000 crore in our aim that we will achieve. Maybe after 1,000, we might decide to focus on bottom‐line and improve it or not at that time. But till the topline of 1000 crore, the EBITDA margin of 9.5‐ 10.5 will remain in books. This is our focus area.
Right, so these two plans will start revenue contributions, so the normal band can go back to 9.5‐10.5%. Right? Yes? Yes, very well.
: Page 15 of 20 And the current employee cost of this quarter, the run rate is 6.5 crore and depreciation is roughly 2 crore. So, have these two new plants' cost come in the quarterly run rate completely or is it more expected? Basically, I want to understand what will be the quarterly run rate of employee cost and depreciation after these two plants start commercial production?
In this time, madam, we have seen that the big employee costs have come. It may be that some employee may be November or it had started coming since last year. If we talk about the employee. I mean, periodically, they joined the company. Majority staff, technicians, production team had already joined. It may be that one or two may be late joining. Maybe in terms of Jan or Feb, or the Q4, but the big employee costs have gone up. So, it won't increase.
Right, so we can understand the run rate of Rs. 6.5‐7 crore for employee costs. Are you talking about quarterly? Quarterly, yes.
Quarterly, employee costs will be around Rs. 7 crore. Right, and depreciation?
I think depreciation will come around Rs. 7 crore. And this will be our standard run rate?
That is also WBV, so going forward it will keep on reducing. At the initial time, when the plan starts, maximum depreciation will come on books. Then after that, going forward, depreciation will decrease. 7.5, 7, 6, gradually it will reduce.
Understood. And secondly, these two new plants, what will be the break even on their utilization? When are we expecting a break‐even Ma'am?
In our continuous PUF panel, our break‐even will come after 30‐35 crore. And maybe in the commercial freezer, our break even came around 45 or 50. There are some recruitment.
Many times our sales strategy and in its mix, if we change, the break‐even can be a little early. This product is for us now, I mean, we are launching it for the first time in the market.
So to capture the market, as of now, we may have some different strategy that for once, we should be a little price competitive for the entry. But going forward, once product's
: Page 16 of 20 acceptability comes, our dealer network becomes strong, after a big customer or tie‐up or dispatch, our repo builds up. Then after that, we will also make the sales price a little reasonable. So that too can impact on the break even.
Right. So by when we are expecting that we will reach Rs 30 crore‐Rs. 35 crore and freezers Rs. 40 crore‐Rs. 45 crore revenue?
In the next financial year, both these verticals will be profitable.
Meaning, FY26 end it will become profitable.
Yes, in the next financial year. In the next 12 months, both these verticals will be profitable.
Okay. And from a classification point of view, will we be representing these continuous PUF panels and commercial freezers from a reporting standpoint in a different business vertical?
We will be reporting them in a different vertical.
Understood. So sir, if I sum up whatever you have told, basically the margin pressure, the effective margin pressure will remain for the next one year, right? Because as you have told, the depreciation cost will also impact the PAT margin and for breakeven, will be till FY26 end. So maybe FY27 onwards is when we expect that we can go back to the margin band of 9.5‐10.5. Would that be our expectation.
In the same financial year we are expecting margin to be between 9‐9.5. So next financial year 9.5‐10.5 is a bit tough but will happen. So Inside EBITDA, if we plus depreciation or interest, say depreciation increase or interest increase, the EBITDA margin will be 9.5‐10.
Depreciation or interest will not impact EBITDA.
Right, but at the PAT level, obviously the depreciation ka impact will come accelerated in the starting, right? Yes. So that will not impact the PAT margin. Right So that PAT margin will go to the earlier level, so that will take, means will it go till FY27 or not? What is the expectation internally?
: Page 17 of 20 I understand. I mean, if I talk about this financial year, we are expecting a PAT of around Rs. 20 crore plus this year also, I mean If I talk about the full financial year, it's not like that because of the depreciation our PAT will be wiped out. Because in front of that, new contributions and business opportunities growth chances are quite high. And our industry segment is growing on a pace. So, we don't face any difficulties or challenges that after bearing the depreciation and interest costs, our PAT will wipe out.
Right, because our PAT margins, like in FY23‐FY24, are in the range of 6.5% to 7%. I think that will be under pressure in FY26.
Yes, that margin will be under pressure till the loan and depreciation impact is there. But after a year or two, if we achieve our sales projection, then the PAT will come to that level too.
Right. And debt, what is the schedule for repayment? Like, we want debt free as soon as possible. How are we planning for that?
To repay debt is not in our priority. The loan we have taken from HDFC Bank of Rs. 48 crore, as of now, its interest is 8.09% or 8.10%. So, we have got a term loan at a very good rate.
So, we don't have any mindset to repay the debt quickly. In fact, from next year, our new vertical, continuous PUF panel, it will start to repay the debt. Existing business verticals will grow with the same pace and cash flow. So, debt repayment is not a challenge for us. We are doing aggressive growth. So, it may be a profit that we will redeploy in the business. So, cash flow is not a challenge for us. And the growth that is coming, we are not going to do it by keeping the operating cash flow on stake.
Understood. Very clear. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you. The question is from Mosam Shah from Wealth Guardian. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity again. Sir, I wanted to ask, what product is your USA certification for?
Refridgeration system for the room, refrigeration equipment.
Okay fine. And how much scope is there in this? Are you talking about potential or?
: Page 18 of 20 Yes, potential.
In the US market, China was there. Now there is favorable condition for India due to China's tariff policy. Our buyer market, the motel, stores, there are the main markets where we have to sell. So many good Indians are connected in this industry. We have good contacts.
Regarding the warehouse facility, technical team, they have local licensing for these. It's a good opportunity. After this happens we think we can do very well.
Thank you. Next question is from Vijay Chug, who's an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Sir, I would like to know what are the short‐term boring numbers at the moment?
Right now, our working capital utilization is around Rs. 35 crore. Short term? Yes, short term, working capital.
Okay, so previously it was actually 2‐3 crore‐5 crore. Now it has increased to probably 2.35 crore?
No, it was not 2‐3 crore previously also. Quarterly.
That could be somewhere around 20 crore‐25 crore range.
Okay. Are we still getting any advance from customers?
Our cold room, which is our major contributing vertical. At the time of booking we take around 20% as advance. So before dispatch our 80%‐90% dues are cleared. It’s only 5%‐10% that we get after installation.
So the entire product line is of the same basis, like 5% to 10% on the delivery and the rest is on the advance, you mean to say?
: Page 19 of 20 Vertical wise, project wise, it is different. If there is a big project or tender, then it has its own terms. If a direct business like ours is from ammonia vertical, it is not through tender, like Haldiram, then they also have different corporate terms. The dealer and distributor network, we give standard 20 days to 45 days credit is given.
Thank you. The next question is from Tej Patel from Niveshaay. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity again. I'm sorry sir, my line dropped for some reason. You have planned to open 2,000 dark stores in quick commerce. Is it possible?
In quick commerce, all the people we worked with, they all say we will make 2,000 dark stores in India. If we add all the revenue, then the market potential of Rs. 900 crore‐Rs. 1000 crore is in the next 2‐3 years. Every year, they will be generating revenue of Rs. 300 crore ‐ 800 crore. We will generate revenue of 50 crore from our quick commerce. So, 15% revenue is our market share.
Okay, got it. One more question. Previous participant was saying that next year we will be EBITDA positive almost 50‐60 crore sales in both the new CAPEX, still we will maintain about let's say 9% margin even on that fixed cost. But going forward let's say that after 3‐4 years when our utilization is at peak for the new CAPEX and even the older capacities operating at an optimal level, can we expect margin 11% or 12% because our new business is almost at breakeven. If we are doing 9.5% in our full business, then when it goes to full utilization, then can we expect at a console level that our 11%‐12% margin can be there?
By the way, until we come to the top‐line of 1000 crore, till then our focus will not be on expanding this. Plus going forward, we are also planning the second CAPEX. Like this was the first phase of CAPEX. With the recruitment or the profit from 1 or 2 quarters was impactful, it may be that in the coming years, not next financial year, maybe in the next‐to‐ next financial year, there may be some such impact, so that our margin gets neutralized.
And by then, we will be able to achieve the topline of 1000 crore. At that point of time, we will decide that this bottom‐line margin should be kept it in the scope of expansion or not?
The size point of view, 500 crore companies is not that big. Until we do the market release of Pan India or sizeable top‐line, we are not in the focus of expanding it. It is possible that our margin may go in plus for one or two years. But to increase the market range, we can also pass on it to the customer.
Thank you very much. We'll take that as the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Mandar Desai for closing comments.
: Page 20 of 20
Ice Make Refrigeration continues its strong growth trajectory driven by strategic execution, innovation and market expansion. While navigating cost pressures, we remain focused on profitability and long‐term value creation. With a robust demand outlook, we are confident in achieving our growth targets and further strengthening our industry leadership. On behalf of the Board of Directors and management team, I extend our heartfelt gratitude to our shareholders, employees, and partners for their unwavering support. We remain committed to delivering sustained value and look forward to continued strong performance in the coming quarters. If you have any questions or require further information, please feel free to reach out to us or our Investor Relations Advisor. We are here to assist you. Thank you.
On behalf of Ice Make Refrigeration Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.