Gateway Distriparks Ltd

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of Gateway Distriparks Limited and Snowman Logistics Limited. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

Before we proceed, we once again request everyone to include their firm's name alongside their name in the Zoom display. Kindly rename your connections. Today on the call, we have Mr.

Prem Kishan Dass Gupta, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Ishaan Gupta, Joint Managing Director; Mr. Samvid Gupta, Joint Managing Director. From Gateway Distriparks Limited, Mr.

Kartik Sundaram Aiyer, CFO; Mr. Rajguru Behgal, Chief Business Officer; Mr. Manoj Singh, Chief Strategy Officer. From Snowman Logistics Limited, Mr. Padamdeep Singh Handa, CEO and Director; Mr. Raghav Garg, CFO.

We will now directly begin the question and answer session. We'll take our first question from Prashant Kale. Prashant, please introduce your company name and please go ahead.

This is Prashant Kale from Star Capital. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So my question is about the governance in the company because if you go through the number of notes, most of the notes are about some tax dispute or something about money stuck somewhere or some claim from some tax authority?

So every year, the list is growing. So I am a little bit worried about the accounting practice and the tax -- in terms of tax and dispute perspective. The notes are filled with lots of tax claims and disputes. So I would like the management view on this and how we are going to reduce this and improve the governance in terms of the tax and other claims?

Yes. So we believe in transparency. That's why we give a very detailed and thorough explanation of all the matters going on. Some of them are questions raised by investors in the past. So it's fair that everyone gets the same picture. If you look at it, we've closed a lot of tax matters also and a lot of them are small amounts also.

Certain matters are industry-wide issues, not just limited to us, whether other companies disclose them in the same way or not is beyond our control. But like I said, we are more about transparency.

If there's a specific concern related to any matter, we're more than happy to address it. But I think more or less, I mean, we would say we have done very well with corporate governance kept in mind. And it's been commented by other investors also that they're happy with this kind of reporting as well.

Yes. So we are happy that the company is reporting time to time whenever these type of situations arise. But we would also like to see the timely closure of all these matters or sometimes amicable solutions instead of fighting it up to the Supreme Court, it is better to close them down and reduce, sometimes pay the penalty or go with the amnesty schemes raised by government every few years. So it would be good to close some of them, which can be closed.

Yes. we appreciate that. We're also of a similar mindset. And if you see last year, we closed out a lot of tax issues under the amnesty scheme, the Vivad Se Vishwas with a very nominal payout.

But where we feel there is a merit in a case, we would want to contest it where we think it's worth it. But we appreciate your feedback, and we'll take that into matter.

Yes. Sir, one question is that we had 31 rakes for quite some time. Are we planning to increase them further or we are happy with the 31 rakes?

So we've been at 34 now for the last couple of years. And in the investor presentation also, we highlighted that we've placed an order to purchase 3 rakes now. These are the high capacity, high-speed wagons. We've also swapped 3 of the old capacity rakes for 3 high-capacity rakes.

So by the end of May, June, we would be at 37 rakes.

Okay. So by end of May, we will get delivery of the 3 new rakes, right?

Yes. And the swapping of the 3 will also be completed by then. I now request Kunal from Fair Value.

Okay. My question is regarding Snowman Logistics. So address to Mr. Handa. The first question is about the warehousing segment. If we look at the historical numbers, it used to do an EBIT margin of around 15% and even went above 20% sometime for FY '21. Now for the past many quarters, the performance has been going down and this quarter was the worst. So can you explain what is happening there?

And if you see in last couple of years, the things have started turning back. I mean they got stable and now we are seeing a little bit of incremental revenues coming, which is looking exciting in times ahead.

Also, we have the Park & Pay model, which was not there in FY '21. So that is a pure back-to- back arrangement at a low margin, but it adds to the overall EBITDA.

It adds to the overall EBITDA in absolute terms?

Can you explain what the margins in the dry storage would be as compared to the earlier chilled and frozen segment that you were in? Because from above 20%, close to 20% margin, it has moved this quarter to 3%, less than 3%. So that's a significant effect from movement into the pay-as-you-go and the dry storage segment. So what was the rationale if you don't get the margins there?

So do I get the idea right that the rationale for getting into the dry business only to fill up capacity that was not being filled by the chilled or frozen business?

No, it is not like that. We create separate dry capacity in the same warehouse. It is not to fill that, but for the stickiness of the customers who are typically serving the quick sale restaurants or the coffee chains wherein they keep both frozen and dry in the same warehouse and would want to use synergies of a single unit to service their restaurants.

So it is something which is imposed, and we have to do it to service those sort of businesses.

Thus, the margins were lesser. If I say earlier, the dry pallet, we were selling in the range of INR600 to INR700. Today, we sell in the range of INR850 to INR1,000, and it is improving every quarter-on-quarter.

Are these dry storage locations separate from the chilled locations even in the same facility?

No. Most of them are in the same facility.

Okay. Most are in the same facility. So even with lower margins, the returns on capital are not compromised because of this - because maybe you have lower capital employed in the dry facilities?

See a facility -- when we are designing a new facility, we are incorporating dry as dry only for the facility, and we take frozen as frozen. So the overall capital employed is also in line to the plan.

Okay, sir. The second question is regarding 5PL. In 5PL, I understand that you own the inventory that you sort of service, but it doesn't show up on the balance sheet. So why is that?

No, it is showing on the balance sheet. The top line does include the 5PL inventory stock value. It is the overall traded value.

But what about the sold inventory. The top line includes that and that's the traded value for the entire quarter. But the sold inventory as of September, it was only around INR14 crores of inventory that you have in your balance sheet?

Yes. See, so our inventory, we keep only 15 to 20 days inventory with us. So the inventory you are seeing in the September results, so that is related to trading inventory only. And that is in line with the number of days inventory we are keeping.

Okay. Okay. And what is the payment structure for the 5PL business, how do you get paid and on what terms?

Who finances the inventory? Do you finance the working capital or you pay something in it?

See, if we finance the working capital, we charge for that. If we don't finance, then it is back to back. So it varies.

It varies account to account.

Okay. And Kopi Kenangan was onboarded as a business, right? How has been your progress with them?

At the speed, they have planned their growth, they are now catching up with the numbers and new cafes are being opened. So we expect them to grow -- I mean, we will also grow along with their new cafes coming up.

Okay. And one more question on the warehousing segment. So if you look at the top line growth, it has been fairly muted, while even the capacity additions have been fairly muted?

No. In case you see the warehousing numbers, quarter-to-quarter, year-on-year, it is 19% growth.

And from last quarter to this quarter also, there is additional 5% growth. And in terms of capacity addition, we have added new warehouses in Krishnapatnam and Kolkata in a couple of quarters back, and there are new capacities coming up in Pune and some other locations for the coming year.

There's a note in your accounts that says the Krishnapatnam Bank transaction with GDL is under dispute. Can you explain that because of some titleissues?

Yes. So we've explained this in the previous calls, but basically, GDL bought this land in 2016- 17. And at that time, there was no dispute. GDL also sold 2 tranches of land to Snowman before this third tranche, again, no issue. And the third tranche, when we were registering the property, there was a claim by the government that this is government land. And part of it was registered.

Part of it was government land. And this is an issue across the district with many other people also. So we've appealed in high court. But till then, Snowman is operating the warehouses without any problems. And GDL also in the last 10 years never faced any issue. So we don't really see it being a long-term matter.

Okay. And just the last question, you maintain -- do you still intend to spend around INR100 crores to INR150 crores per annum on your capex? Yes. How much would be financed with debt?

Majority would be debt, about, say, 75%, 80% would be debt. But we'll also be looking at build- to-suit expansion. So that is without any capex or loan from our side where someone else develops it, and we take it on a long-term lease.

So build-to-suit is the more O&M like model, right?

Yes, but it's built to our spec specifically. But built by the customer?

Customer, landlord, warehouse operator, there are different people who own lease.

I now request Muralidhara Reddy to please unmute his connection. Mr. Reddy, please your company name and go ahead with your question.

Thank you very much. I'm an Individual Investor. So basically, I'm investing for my family. And Gateway is actually at top in the portfolio of the 15, 20 stocks we invest across. So I just wanted you to know. So I've been following the company for a while, and you've been having some challenges, but I thought it has been looking at?

But what really concerns me about the Benami issue, though it amount is only INR8 crores, INR9 crores, INR10 crores, it may not have a financial impact, but it does give a little bit of discomfort because we would like to really look at the company which has got a better governance and things like that because we are investing for the family for about 10 to 15 years? That is one question.

And then the part of the second question is that when will this Snowman will turn around and will start realizing in the bottom line? And the third part of the same question is that now in Indore, Pithampur you are investing about INR150 crores. Does that say proper due diligence has been done? Do you see any, again, some Benami challenges there?

So on the Jaipur, we've been disclosing about the issue, what's been happening since the beginning. It's unfortunate that it happened, but we don't think we've done anything wrong in this whole arrangement. We have lawyers' opinion from the top tax lawyers in the country, and they believe that we have strong merit in our case.

So hopefully, at this level, we are hopeful that a favorable order can come in and then we can resume the Jaipur project. This was a one-off for us. So Indore, like you're asking, I don't see any issues happening there. It's been vetted again properly. It was all direct registry. So I don't see any issues like Benami coming in probably ever again in the company's history.

Regarding Snowman turnaround, we are focused on top line and EBITDA expansion right now, and we're in still a growth phase where we want to more than -- our capacity is 155,000. We want to take it to 200,000 in the next 2, 3 years, and we want to build on that further.

So we're reinvesting everything. That's why because of high interest costs, higher depreciation, the bottom line might not appear to be there. But on the cash flow generation, it's generating healthy cash flow year-on-year, which we're deploying back into the business.

We'll now take our next question from Tanay Handge from Elios. Tanay, please go ahead with your question. Please unmute yourself first.

Since there is no response, we'll move on to the next question from Vipulkumar Shah.

I'm also an Individual Investor. So my question is regarding your upcoming Indore project. So when is it likely to be completed? And what type of capacity addition we'll have?

So it should be operational within 2 years, and we're looking at about 120,000 TEUs per year capacity at the terminal.

It should take 2 years. So now you have got the possession of land?

Yes. The possession has come. Now we'll apply for conversion of land since this was agricultural land. Then the rail line is also being built in. It’s a new rail corridor from Indore to Dahod, which will connect to JNPT. So that will take about a year also. And then by the time you get all the final customs approvals, commissioning of terminal, it ends up taking about 2 years, but we'll try to do it a little bit faster if we can.

So what type of precaution we have taken so that the story which was there in Jaipur is not repeated here?

We've done proper due diligence. We've done direct registry. We've not used any aggregator.

We've gone and seen the sites to see that there's no encroachment. No miners are there, no revenue record, road in the middle. So lot less issues, much more cleaner structure, doing it straight with the landowners themselves.

And sir, how much of our money is stuck at Jaipur? Can you quantify it, please?

So the one with the aggregator is about INR8 crores to INR9 crores.

I think in notes, there are multiple amounts that have been mentioned?

So the owned land by us is about INR21 crores. The aggregator land is about INR8 crores to INR9 crores. And then we've deposited with railways, but then we got the work stopped. So that's -- it's flying with railways about INR5 crores. But in case -- I mean, that's just the project when it goes through, that will be utilized towards the railway station work.

So INR21 crores, which we have signed for registration in our name, that also has been -- that also has been seized by the government or attached by the government?

No, that is clear. That's why I was saying only the INR8 crores, INR9 crores is under dispute.

And that INR21 crores value has also gone up in time. So our investment is secure, and that's why we've not provided for anything in the financials.

No, but it's a loss of business opportunity. So the land which we are having, we can go with that land and have a smaller footprint or that is not commercially viable?

No, because you need 1 kilometer length to make an ICD viable. And without the aggregator land, we don't have that. So it's not possible to make an ICD without the land that's in question.

And sir, my last question is, can you give the margin -- EBITDA margin for both this ICD and CFS separately per TEU?

So as of this quarter, and we announced it last quarter as well that we won't be giving a split between the segments anymore. We will just be reporting a company-wide EBITDA per TEU, which is there in our investor presentation. And for the ease of all investors, we've given last 2 years historical comparable data so people can see the trend of it.

Okay. And you mentioned in your notes to accounts that since we have become debt-free, we are giving a special dividend, right? But I think we have -- I saw some debt, I think, around INR200 crores -- so -- or am I missing something?

Yes. So that is after Snowman gets consolidated. So the Snowman debt is also coming in. We had touched a surplus like we had crossed the net debt figure on a consolidated basis without Snowman for the first time in the company. And we have healthy cash flows. We're sitting on about INR140 crores as on date. This is after the acquisition of Indore land also. And if you look at us historically, the amount of capex we've done, investment in Snowman, investment in Kashipur and the dividend paid, we've still generated a good amount. So we felt it was right to reward the shareholders with -- it's a onetime special dividend. It's not a recurring annual dividend.

So just for clarification, this INR140 crores is after those INR200 crores, which are visible as a debt in your consolidated account?

Yes. So INR140 crores is the cash in hand, but there is a gross debt still in the books, but the number that you're seeing is probably with the Snowman figures as well. So as of December, if you see the gross debt without Snowman would be about INR200 crores. The cash at end of December was about INR188 crores. So the net debt had gone to 0 in January. And thereafter, we bought the Indore land, which brought the cash down from, say, around INR180, INR190 crores levels down to INR140 crores today.

I now request Tanay Handge to please accept the prompt on the screen. Tanay, please unmute yourself and go ahead with your question, please. I'm sorry, Tanay, if you can rejoin again.

I now request Kunal from Fair Value Capital.

Questions again on Snowman. First, are there any plans for pricing hikes in the warehousing division?

So you are able to pass on cost increases and...

Yes, we are able to get those price hikes in all our last contracts, which have been done in last 5 to 6 months, we have got the price hike.

Okay. Second is, if you could help us with the percentage of warehouses or capacity that is PAT positive for Snowman. And how long did an average warehouse take to reach that stage?

Percentages, as of now, I don't have that specific number… How many numbers are there? So what I'm trying to figure is out is at what stage does Snowman start showing up positive PAT figure?

Again, it varies location to location. What we try to aim for is about a 7 to 8 year payback. It is slightly longer than -- but capex costs have gone up in the last few years. But again, these are long-term assets where we run a warehouse for 25 to 30 years. So overall project, if we look at it, then it's viable. But on a short-term basis, you might see not that much PAT.

And this 7- to 8-year payback period, considering any -- does it also consider any replacement cost for, say, chillers or air conditioning? Inclusive of that?

That doesn't come in the first 7, 8 years. Normally, maybe one cycle in over 25 years, you'll have to replace some of the equipment, but the flooring, racking, normally, that's all fine. Material handling equipment like forklifts and maybe some compressor chiller you might have to, but not the entire thing.

Okay. And sir, last question. Sir, in your notes to accounts number 4, it says that your effective tax rate has increased to 35%. So that's the new rate that can be expected that affects your deferred tax as well? Raghav Garg So that was for the previous year. So in current year, there is no change. So last year, we increased from 29% because earlier we were in 25% and now we are in 30%. Yes, 30% plus surcharge, effective tax rate come to 34.9%. I now invite Rusmik Oza from 9 Rays.

Yes. My question was regarding this recently the trade deal which we are signing with U.S. now.

How does it impact the business positively? Because of late, the share of ICDs vis-a-vis CFS gone up substantially. And if the export activity picks up again, how does it impact our EBITDA per TEU or the profitability?

So, after the announcement of this U.S. trade deal, so we are expecting a major traction, especially in the exports of handicrafts, textiles, leather and chemicals. And right now, we have 25% of U.S. sales of the total volume kitty we have export. So we are expecting that with this deal, the U.S. bound exports, they are going to increase. But again, we are just waiting for the fine print and once the proper deal is signed, so then only we'll be able to quantify some numbers.

And apart from this U.S. trade deal, we are also hopeful this EU trade deal. So there also, we are having an exposure – about 10% of the exports are going to EU countries from our ICD. So there also, we are expecting increase in the volumes, especially in terms of exports of handicrafts and textiles.

Okay. Okay. Sir, second question is linked - assuming in the second half of this next fiscal year, both EU and U.S. trade goes through, then do we have the enough capacity to meet that kind of export demand that can come up?

Yes. So our capacity at our terminals on the rail side is that we can go 4x of our volume with the current land bank. Even on the CFS side, we can still increase our utilization by, say, 20%, 30%.

CFS is more import heavy. So any export boost there also will help the trailers turn around and reduce our cost, and we can easily handle that.

So capacity won't be a constraint. And if you see that earlier also in the call, I mentioned we're purchasing 3 more rakes and swapping out 3 low capacity for high-capacity rakes. So we're gearing up for increase in volumes.

Okay. Okay. And my last question is related to this dedicated freight corridor. When do you expect this DFC to get commissioned and in terms of connectivity to JNPT? And how does it improve our business? That's one. And another question is double stacking now is 41%. To what extent we can go in case of double stacking? And how does the business and margins look better if these things go through?

Yes. So the last connection to JNPT DFC corridor is expected by end of March. And once this gets completed, so we are expecting some volume to get moving. So basically, what we are expecting that there will be some shift of Mundra volumes towards JNPT.

And we are also expecting that some road volumes might also shift to JNPT, but that is too early to comment on because ultimately, it will also depend on the shipping line vessel schedules, how they are going to do it. And in terms of double stack percentage, yes, we are expecting that it will definitely increase by at least 2% to 3%.

Okay. Okay. And any revenue margin guidance you would like to give for next fiscal year FY '27?

No. See, a similar trend basically, but there will be a change in volume mix with domestic and Ankleshwar and depending on what locations are growing. So it's hard to give it on a per TEU basis right now. But if you look at our percentage margins, we'd like to keep the same trend going.

I now invite Prashant Kale from Star Capital.

My question is about, is there -- did they restore the import of scrap paper in North India and volume of the scrap paper content has gone up or it is still struggling?

It's been on a similar trend for the last year. 2 years ago, there was a dip, and it recovered slightly.

But if you compare it with at its peak, then it's gone down still.

Yes. Because of the Red Sea crisis, the import of the scrap has gone up. That's why that's the effect. But probably by end of this year, that could be restored slightly if the Suez Canal volume

goes up and the Houthis don't attack. And other question is we did not have much operations on Eastern dedicated freight corridor. Have we started any operation on that side? No, we don't have any presence there.

Are we planning to start anything on that side?

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. Participants that have missed out due to time constraints can reach out to the management and SGA for Gateway Distriparks and Snowman Logistics for any further information.

With that, we conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now exit the meeting. Thank you.