Emami Ltd

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Emami Limited Q3 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Percy Panthaki from IIFL Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon. It's my pleasure to host Emami for the 3Q FY '26 Conference Call. Online with me, I have Mr. Mohan Goenka, Whole-Time Director and Vice Chairman; Mr. Vivek Dhir, CEO, International Business; Mr. Gul Raj Bhatia, President, Health Care; Mr. Manish Gupta, President Sales; and Mr. Giriraj Bagri, Chief Growth Officer; and Mr. Rajesh Sharma, President, Finance and IR.

I'll hand over the call to Mr. Mohan Goenka for his initial comments, and then we will open up for Q&A.

Thank you, Percy. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for Emami Limited's Q3 FY '26 Earnings Call. I'm delighted to share our results for the quarter and 9 months ended 31st December '25. I must say this has been a quarter of strong broad-based performance that is fully aligned with our expectations and strategic priorities. We have witnessed a sequential improvement following the GST 2.0 disruptions that continued to affect the early parts of the quarter. The favorable winter season played to our strengths, driving stronger offtake across our winter portfolio and health care.

On a consolidated level, net sales grew by double digits at 11% with revenue of INR1,152 crores, growing by 10% during the quarter. Our domestic business delivered an 11% growth, led by a robust 9% volume growth. All major brands performed well in Q3, led by BoroPlus, which grew by 16%, Kesh King grew by 10%, Pain Management grew by 8% and health care range grew by 7%. The Male Grooming range grew by 4%. Navratna and Dermicool grew by 1%.

Our strategic subsidiaries, that is The Man Company and Brillare together delivered a robust growth of 31%. Our strategy of purposeful innovation and premiumization continues to gain traction. During the quarter, we launched several exciting products and variants that addresses evolving needs of new age consumers.

Our omnichannel strategy continues to perform well with quick commerce doubling its sales and now contributing 20% to our e-comm business. Overall, organized channels contributed around 32% year-to-date, increasing their contribution by 280 basis points over the previous year. We have engaged KPMG to drive a future-ready supply chain transforming across omnichannel operations.

On the international front, our sales grew by 9% with double-digit growth in 7 Oils in One, BoroPlus, Creme 21 and our pain management range. We saw steady growth led by SAARC and CIS regions.

On the financial front, gross margin expanded to 70.6%, an improvement of 30 basis points, underscoring our rigorous cost discipline, judicious price hikes and benefits of input price stability. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR384 crores, growing by 13%, while EBITDA margins improved to 33.4%, an expansion of 110 basis points.

During the quarter, we accounted for INR10.1 crores towards the impact of changes in the new labor code, which is represented under the exceptional items. Our profit after tax at INR319 crores grew by 15%. Our digital spends now account for almost 50% of our overall media spends in line with evolving consumer media consumption trends, enabling sharper targeting and higher engagement.

I'm also delighted to announce that our Board of Directors have declared a second interim dividend of 600%, amounting to INR6 per share for FY '26. The total dividend declared in 9 months FY '26 amount to INR10 per share, reflecting our confidence in our business performance and our commitment to reward the shareholders of the company.

Further, I would also like to inform you that as per the recent proposed amendments in the union budget, our applicable income tax rate for the stand-alone entity would reduce to around 25% from 35% for FY '27 onwards. Looking ahead, we remain optimistic about Q4 and beyond.

There's a better consumption momentum building in the environment, and we are positioned to capitalize on it.

We remain focused on our core brands as well as new age opportunities. With strengthening demand trends, consistent portfolio actions and a clear strategic road map, we are increasingly confident in our ability to deliver sustained profitable growth and create long-term value for our stakeholders.

With that, I would now like to open the floor for Q&A. Thank you so much for your continued support.

Thank you very much. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Kapadia Financial Services. Please go ahead.

A couple of questions from my end. So post the GST disruption in Q2, we were confident of growth coming back. So that has happened during the quarter. So from here on Mohan ji, how and what do we build for growth as we move towards FY '27? What I was trying to understand, given the base we have, most of the products are under the 5% GST slab now. So earlier, in most of our power brands, new user addition was missing. So is that going to be a big driver for growth? What categories could benefit. If you could comment on the sales trajectory, that will be helpful?

So Prakash, you are right. So our endeavor is always to get to double-digit growth. Of course, some of our brands are seasonal. A lot depends on that. But nevertheless, every brand has got a lot of opportunity because penetrations are still on the lower side for most of our brands. And because you rightly said that now the GST is at 5%, we are confident that the brand should get to close to double-digit growth. That is the target that we have given to the brand teams.

Depending on the seasonality here and there, the numbers depend mostly on that. But still, our targets are to get to double digit.

Okay. And any specific categories you want to call out in terms of the power brand? Or given some of these changes which has happened, we should see growth momentum across most of our categories. And on the new user addition because that piece was really missing earlier. Is that now a big, big driver for growth? Sorry, what was missing?

New customer additions, new users to the...

Yes. So each brand, as I said in my con call that right now, our 50% of our communication is digital. So we are targeting the new consumers, particularly the youth consumers. And also now our contribution from modern trade and e-commerce has reached to almost 30%. So all this growth, whatever you see today is coming through these new age and young consumers. That has always been a target for us.

At the same time, rural, which was not performing, we are seeing some growth coming in from rural areas. And with this reduction in GST rates, we are very hopeful that the rural should get to some momentum going forward. So brands which were growing to -- at 4%, 5%, they should get to about 8%, 9% growth. That is the first target that we have. Understood. Understood.

The new age brands, that is The Man Company, Brillare, they are anyway firing, and we expect a higher growth coming in from there.

Yes. Yes. And lastly, one bookkeeping question. Rajesh, the amortization figure of INR23-odd crores every quarter, how long should that continue? And what is the balance sheet figure as on date, which is still left for amortization, if you have that ready?

So that will continue for another 3, 4 years, and the rate would come down gradually to INR80 crores, INR70 crores and INR60 crores kind of. So gradually, it will come down. In the next 4 years, it will completely be done.

The next question is from the line of Mr. Siddhesh Desmukh from IIFL Capital.

My first question is with regards to Smart and Handsome. So we have made entry into new categories of sunscreen, deodorants, body wash, etcetera. Can you highlight how the initial response has been to these NPDs? And also, what is the strategy here? Is this a specific geographic or a channel-specific launch? How do you see this scaling up pan-India?

Yes. So we have just done a test market that is on specific channels. It's only digital right now.

This is the response coming in from there. We will roll it out nationally. There are great learning from the initial launch. So we are again trying to revamp from there to roll it out nationally.

Maybe in the second half of this year, we will roll it out.

Okay. Got it. Sir, my second question is with regards to the demand trend. Can you highlight how the trends are shaping in rural as well as urban. Now that 88% of the portfolio has seen a GST rate cut to 5%, which are the categories which have seen a pickup in demand post the rate cut and which are the categories which are yet to see an uptick?

So see, most of the brands, particularly the winter has shown some signs of growth. And we are entering into the summer season. We will have to wait and see how the summer season because, as you know, the winter is extended in most parts of the country. So yet we are yet to see the loading of the summer season for now. But hopefully, in the next 15, 20 days, we will start loading our winter -- summer products.

But as far as the demand is concerned, I don't see any challenge to get to 8%, 9% growth because we are increasingly focusing on our small SKUs. Next year, our big focus is on the shampoo sachets plus some other small SKUs for most of our brands. Even Smart and Handsome, we are increasingly focusing on our small SKUs now because we see a good revival in the rural markets next year. Because we have mostly addressed the needs of the modern trade and e-com and -- but now the fire has to come from the rural areas. And the next few quarters, that is our focus.

The next question is from the line of Harit Kapoor from Investec.

The first thing is could you just give a sense of grammage increases that could have happened on account in the lower end in the LUPs that you have because of these GST rate cuts. Is that a sizable number that you would have put in?

So depending on the SKUs, whatever -- because the -- it was not possible to reduce the prices in the small SKUs. So whether it was 10%, 12%, accordingly, we have increased the grammages, different products...

Sorry, sorry, sorry. And what part of the portfolio would be how much percentage of the portfolio would that -- how much -- what percentage of the portfolio would that be where you've taken this 10% odd reduction? Around 20%.

And should that volume fully reflect into quarter 4 rather than quarter 3, where some changes would have still been made? Is that the right way to think about it?

I don't think the full impact has come in quarter 3. You don't think it's come in quarter 3? Yes, Navratna is still not factored in.

Yes. Okay. Perfect. And the second thing was on hair oil. So Kesh King has done well for you.

So obviously, it's a portfolio play now in terms of number of products there. But you've seen 7 in One also where -- which had an amazing few years and then a slight weakness and now again, growing very fast. But it seems like value-added across companies is actually doing quite well.

Just -- could you just -- your sense of what's driving this? Is it a low base? Is it something else

that's kind of driving up this value-added market. Because even your -- even the other players are actually doing quite well. So your prognosis of what's happening here?

Sure. So to answer your question, as you know from the previous calls, we had mentioned about BCG working with us to refresh and rejuvenate brand Kesh King. So those results have started.

We relaunched it around August, September. There was a bit of a disruption due to the GST and stuff.

But October onwards, the relaunch is in full flow. So you're seeing the first impact in the quarter already. 7 Oils has a similar story as well, and it's on a good growth path. So we hope the momentum to continue. But there is a long way to go because we did decline for the last few quarters sequentially. So I guess with every passing quarter, we should start climbing back.

And Manish, you see this as a market phenomenon because everybody else around is also reporting fairly stellar numbers in mid-premium and above hair oil portfolio. So I just wanted to -- like do you think it's a base thing also because not only you but others also would have declined in same period as last year. Is that a factor at play as well?

You're right. See, last year was a different story. I'm talking about 3 things. One is, of course, in the last couple of years, let's say, there was softness in the numbers of both these brands. So yes, that has played a role. GST disruption had a role, but the bigger story is what is the organic growth. The organic part is about relaunching it, redeploying it, putting the new plans, new communication, addressing the consumer concerns which came out, that's the hope for the future. So far, it looks good. And I guess as we get into Q4 and then Q1, we'll be able to build further credentials on it.

Right. And last thing from my end, you kind of spoke about rural. Obviously, rural is an important part of the overall strategy. So are you saying that compared to maybe last year or the last few quarters, the initial -- the sense that you're getting now is that rural is seeing an incremental kind of pickup. Is that what kind of your teams on the ground are hinting at?

Yes, Harit. So absolutely. And we have seen some good demand for our sachets in the rural markets. And all the focus for the company was also to build e-comm, modern trade and the new age brands. But because of the GST cuts, at least internally, we have said that the next growth drivers should come from rural and our focus would be increasingly going into rural markets.

We will, of course, keep our eye on the modern trade e-commerce, quick commerce. That is always there. But rural also can fire, I think, going forward. And now as I said, summer, we have to build now the summer portfolio. And it's -- rural is a big play as far as the summer is concerned, both for talc and Navratna oil.

The next question is from the line of Amnish Aggarwal for PL Capital.

A couple of questions. First being that given the fact that the GST transition got completed in the month of November only. So is there a probability that next quarter, again, we will have strong momentum with likelihood of, say, close to double-digit kind of a top line growth?

That is what we expect that hopefully, we should get to double-digit growth. The only caveat is winter is extended, and we have to get to the summer. Navratna Oil and Navratna talc and Dermicool are big summer brands. And we have to load these 3 products now in the month of February and March. Yes. And last year basis were very, very high as far as the summer brands are concerned.

But see, these are just numbers. If it doesn't come in this quarter, it will come in next quarter because -- anyway, for the summer brands, we are at a lower base. But the momentum is what we will have to capture. As I said, that the momentum looks good as far as the rural is concerned.

And our dealers are holding very less stocks. So I don't see any reason that we can't build on the summer portfolio as soon as the season starts.

Okay. So my next question is on the tax rate because as I think it is being indicated that the MAT credit changes have happened. And now we will be having, I think, 70 -- 80, 70, 60 and 40 as MAT credit. So the effective tax rate, which currently is around, say, adjusting for everything around 10, 10.5. So what should we pencil in as tax rate for the coming 2, 3 years?

So Amnish, before this budget announcement, union budget announcement, our tax rate was expected to go to the normal tax rate of 35% from next year. But with this recent announcement, now it is going to be 25% tax rate. So in fact, it has come down with the recent proposed amendments in the union budget. So going ahead, we should be at a 25% tax rate and also utilize 25% of our tax liability from MAT credit, which will continue for 5, 6 years minimum.

Okay. So it means that we should look at 25.5% kind of a tax rate and then the MAT credit number, which you have indicated, so that will get deducted from...

Yes, right. So that would be for stand-alone entity. And we have some subsidiaries which are still in investment stage. We have international subsidies. So overall tax rate for the consol entity should be below that level. around 20% kind of.

The next question is from the line of Naveen Trivedi from Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited.

Sure, sir. And post this quarter 3, how should we look at our trade inventories? Are we -- have we -- because October would have been kind of unfavorable from GST point of view. So can we expect that after like completion of quarter 3, now our trade inventories are in similar lines?

Sorry, I'm not clear, Naveen, what is your ask?

My ask was that since we have seen GST restocking, destocking in the last 3, 4 months, have we reached to a level where our trade inventories are now normal? And...

Absolutely. I think we have great -- we have no excess inventories as far as the trade is concerned. Sure, sure.

And they're very well, I think. We have migrated very well.

Fair point. So because 9 months, we were kind of flat on revenue side. I just thought maybe any specific brands where we kind of...

That was primarily because of the summer. You know this year, summer was extremely poor.

And it was primarily because of summer, we lost almost 5%, 6% of our growth.

Congrats on good numbers. My first question is on the profitability of each distribution channel.

Yesterday, one large FMCG company said that the new age channels, modern trade, e- commerce, quick commerce, those are more profitable than general trade because the distribution layers of intermediaries are not there in the new age channel, plus I think more premium packs, large packs may also sell more on those channels. Could in your categories also, this be largely true or there is some kind of aberration here?

No, Abneesh, I have maintained always that in our case, it is the reverse. In our case, the GT is more compared to the modern trade. The lowest is the e-commerce.

And what is the reason for that. Why it's different? Because intermediaries, you will be saving costs. But yes, the promotions are higher on?

Yes, absolutely, only because of the promotions that we offer there.

Okay. Understood. And in terms of the last point which you mentioned in the answer to previous question, FY '26, summer categories have seen the brand, so beer players, soft drinks and carbonated drinks and your categories. So here, specific question is, generally, when we see such aberration next year generally is favorable because last year, La Nina effect was there?

But specific question is, how does trade behave? Do they stock up inventory because last year, they must have burned some fingers there. So is that a pushback? And what is your expectation of whatever you could gather from the weather forecast? Is it going to be a bumper summer season for you this time?

I think it's a pretty valid question. So what happens is, in this case, obviously, the sentiment changes because of the recent history. Last to last year, in FY '25, the summer was really, really bumper. The pipelines go dry. So you have a very great start next summer, which we had last year. So this year, the situation reverses a bit.

But thankfully, because of GST and other things, it's not such an unsurmountable challenge.

Having said that, what happens is in the beginning, trade becomes a little cautious. And we are cognizant of that. Our pipelines are nice. We are playing accordingly. Over the next 2, 3 weeks, I think once as the weather starts opening up, things will start flowing.

And you expect the bumper summer season this year based on whatever scientific data is available?

My job is to expect a bumper summer every year. I would pray for that, but you know like summer and winter is something we've seen recently in the last 4, 5 years, the whole country is erratic when both summer and winter can shock you.

Abneesh, you are right, we are sitting on a small base. And so I think looking at a 3-year CAGR, we are taking aggressive numbers. Why not. At least in the beginning of the season, the fourth quarter, for summer, we have a high base, as Manish explained. Last year, it was very good. So every dealer stocked the product in the fourth quarter.

But this year, we have slightly challenged that our winter is extended, and they are being a little cautious. But this is every year, we see this. It doesn't matter to us. But hopefully, this year should be much better than the last year. There is no doubt in it.

Understood. Last quick question on the macro. So one is on GST benefit to FMCG, based on the results, at least, it seems food companies, noodles and biscuit companies seem to be the big winner based on Q3 numbers, whatever has come out. And hair oil companies also seem to be reasonable beneficiary. If you could comment on your take on GST benefits on FMCG in general and for your categories? That is my first question.

And second, on rural consumption, the G RAM G scheme in NREGA scheme, the outlay seems to have reduced sharply at least headline number. Would you be worried given it's an on-demand kind of a scheme plus this time, the central and state government both have a role there. So what would be your take on NREGA capital support for this year?

Abneesh, honestly, our penetration is not that these schemes matter so much. What really matters is always the seasonality, what we have seen in the past. So I don't see any impact of those schemes going down or up. Our products are available at INR1, INR2, INR5, INR10 pack. That doesn't have much major impact.

What we will have is that overall, as I said, our focus in the last few quarters was very much on MT e-comm and quick comm, that is still there, but we have deployed a good amount of people in the rural for our sachets. If the season is with us, then I don't see any reason why should we not get to close to 8% to 10% growth.

And GST benefit, where are you seeing maximum in your categories and overall?

Abneesh, all our products have now come to 5% other than just the Smart and Handsome portfolio. So we are seeing benefit across. It depends on the product. Again, it is very difficult for me to say sometimes what fires, sometimes what doesn't fire. It is very difficult to pinpoint.

The next question is from the line of Raman KV from Sequent Investments.

Congratulations on good set of numbers. I just have one question on the rural aspect. If you can quantify the growth figures which you saw during this quarter. And also if you can give a ballpark contribution towards -- from rural business towards your entire consolidated revenue, that will be helpful?

Could you be a little more specific around it so that I can...

I just want to understand like in terms of quantification, can you just quantify the rural growth that you witnessed during this quarter?

So we'll have to wait a little bit because the Nielsen results will come out only in a while. See, what we do is right now, we have the primary input numbers. The rural offtake numbers will take a bit of a while. But usually, I mean, this would be obviously a better quarter than the previous one.

If you can -- can you provide -- was it a low single digit or high single digit or mid double-digit that kind of?

No, so it's a double-digit number, of course, right? I mean, considering that the overall numbers are in that space. And the middle and the rural part will be better than the upper India, let's say, the top India.

Understood, sir. And sir, from the entire portfolio, what percentage is consummated by rural demand?

About -- it's about 48-52 split in favor of rural from an offtake perspective.

The next question is from the line of Nitin Gupta from Emkay Global.

My first question pertains to digital brands. So just wanted to check on the areas he had worked on and how are we placed now with the digital brands growth?

Quarter-on-quarter, we've seen growth strengthen in the digital brands. And this quarter, we've seen a very robust 31% growth over last year. And this growth in the coming quarters, we expect to sustain this robust growth. Have I answered your question?

Yes. So can you -- I was basically looking to -- in terms of action we have taken in the portfolio, would you like to highlight any specific action which sort of has helped us sort of revive the growth in the digital brand portfolio?

Yes. Given the very nature of the brands which are digital in nature, we are seeing very strong growth coming through quick commerce and through our D2C websites in a broad basis and some marketplaces on a selective basis. We're also seeing significant growth coming from some of our new innovations is the Rosemary Oil Shots, some perfumes that we are seeing strong growth under The Man Company. And we have done a lot of renovation work as far as our grooming category is concerned, which is just about to hit the market towards end of December, and you will see some more additional benefits accruing in the coming quarters.

My second and last question pertains to this ayurvedic portfolio. What is the ayurvedic export share in our health care business? So government has announced to take some steps around improving the outlook for the ayurvedic offering. So do you see this as a potential driver of business for us?

Thank you for the question. As of now, the ayurvedic portfolio for exports is very, very low, predominantly because of registration issues in most of the countries where we could probably see potential. I know that government through the business -- the Rexel organization is working

towards getting registration sorted out, but it's still a long process. So it will take some time for ayurvedic medicines to be scaled up. It will take a few years in my view.

There may be short-term opportunities or medium-term opportunities coming in from certain countries through the supplements route where certain products are allowed to be registered as health supplements. But then that market again needs to be developed and invested upon for the local people. Where there are Indians, there is an opportunity for products like Chyawanprash, et cetera. And there is a market for a product like Ashwagandha in the U.S. But beyond that, it needs a lot of investments to grow that market. So it's not a short-term or a medium-term game. It's a long-term game to be played.

The next question is from the line of Ajay Thakur from Anand Rathi Securities.

So I had 2 questions. One was more on the growth in the Male Grooming segment. It's at around 4-odd percent. It looks slightly subdued despite the fact that we have revamped this like last -- maybe last year itself. So I just wanted to get a sense on what is kind of the issues or what are the major factors which is kind of impacting the growth over here?

So Ajay, you are right. The Male Grooming, particularly the Smart and Handsome range has not been growing for some time despite of the best effort..

Okay. Understood. Sir, second question was on the Bangladesh market. How has the performance been in that market given the turmoil we have seen, has that had any implication on our sales or any impact on our business over there?

Yes. Bangladesh per se, in market sales, we have registered a good double-digit growth, but somehow we were correcting certain pipeline. But in the primary sales, you will reflect a very low single digit growth. So the market performance has been pretty impressive, and we have seen a very good revival in Bangladesh in last quarter.

And something similar is continuing in this quarter as well. But we are going to witness the elections on around 12th of February this year. And then Bangladesh is getting into long holidays in March due to Ramadan and Eid vacations. So let us see. Let's hope for the best. But otherwise, our demand is showing very robust growth in the marketplace.

Understood. Secondly, if I were to look at it in terms of the international business, the overall growth at 9% versus the headline growth in most of the markets like be it SAARC, be it MENA has shown a very decent growth. So what is the segment or what is the market which is kind of pulling it down?

So we have faced certain pressures in what we call as other MENA like Iraq and some lukewarm response in certain North African markets. So that is where we have with a lukewarm. But most of the other markets, even our business spans in Southeast Asia, SAARC, Russia, CIS, parts of Africa have all shown very good double-digit growth. Certain markets have not been able to perform and in fact, Iraq has declined. So that is the reason to have an overall growth of around 9%.

The next question is from the line of Prashant, an Individual Investor.

So my first question is how many retail touch points did we have as of 31st December. What is our target for 31st March and FY '27 exit?

This is Manish here. So I'll speak for the India numbers. Indirectly, we are present in over 5 million stores, Navratna being the deepest penetrated brand for us. And other brands could be in the range of anything from 5 lakh to 30 lakh depending on the brand.

As far as March is concerned, I mean, we have no special initiatives to expand this coverage. I mean, if you've been following our calls over the last few quarters, we want to consolidate and grow more lines in the stores, grow more assortment, grow more depth and develop the mart stores and other stuff. So the idea is to focus and chew well what we have.

Okay. The reason is, I mean, in one of the earlier questions, I heard that, I mean, quite a few of our products in the smaller price range, I mean, like INR1, INR2, INR5 pouches. So aligned to the numbers you gave out, I mean, are we seeing a traction for these smaller sized products in the e-commerce also or those are largely flowing through the traditional route?

Yes, it's mostly traditional. I mean most of the LUPs in the small packs below INR100 are not e-comm and MT friendly for viability reasons. In fact, they actually seek products above 150 to 200 usually, especially in the personal care side.

So in light of that also, I mean, you would like to keep the retail footprint at this level and consolidate?

No, no. See, this is a very good reach. This is a damn good reach for a company of our size and staff. The brand pulls in. And we -- like for most FMCG companies, anything from 50% to 60% sales comes in through the wholesale channels, which India is very well developed on. And through the multilayer wholesale, the brand reach is more than 5 million stores. So we -- there's not a dearth of pull on our brand equity. I mean our network is present in over 8,000 towns. So in terms of ability to reach hinterland of India, we have no problems.

Okay. Fair enough. My second question was in terms of hair oil. I mean, some of your competitors have like one North Chyawanprash famous company, another almond oil company, they have moved into coconut oil. Your -- any plans from your side to move into that category?

Prashant, right now, we don't have plans.

Any particular reason or that's not a viable because it's not viable or if anything specific you can?

That I can't be very specific, Prashant, but right now, we don't have plans.

The next question is from the line of Sameer Gupta from IIFL Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, firstly, just wanted to understand how do we read this performance? So 2Q was impacted by channel destocking. And this quarter, we would have

restocked the channel and that benefit is there. Now if I look at 2Q plus 3Q, which basically offsets for this destocking and restocking, it is a flat performance. 1Q, I understand was impacted by a poor summer, but 2Q plus 3Q adjusted for this phenomenon is also flat. So our secondaries and tertiaries growing in line with primaries. How do we read this performance?

Again, Manish here. I'll speak for the domestic India business. So you're right. I mean, from a secondary perspective, excluding talc, we are in mid-single higher digit side. Talc is what the issue was in Q1 and Q2. But otherwise, from a tertiary secondary perspective, the pipeline is very nice. We are very clean, no issues on that front.

So mid- to high single digit for the 9 months, excluding talc, that's what you're saying? Correct.

Not this quarter. This quarter would have been...

This quarter, the talc wasn't there. So this is -- this quarter is like practically talc is almost nil. So the entire thing is...

But this quarter, you would have seen an upstocking benefit in primary. So what would be the secondary growth for this quarter?

No, no, there is no upstocking in this quarter. There's no upstocking. That's what I said. See, the secondaries for us in a 9-month period are ahead of primary. There is no upstocking in the 9- month period or in this quarter.

But Manish, if 2Q had got impacted because of destocking because of GST cuts and channel was basically not buying, waiting for the new GST rates to be applicable, it is natural for them to upstock to a normal level of inventory in the third quarter?

No, no, no. But channel did -- by the way, we also couldn't sell. We also suffered losses as you've seen in the quarter 2 results.

Second question is on winter. So there has been a mixed feedback across companies on how the winters have been. So some companies have called out a harsher winter this time. Some companies have called it a harsher, but the onset was very delayed. In Northern and Western part, there was virtually no winter until the second week of December. So what has been your feedback? I'm just trying to understand that.

It's very simple. In hindsight, it's very simple. The winter/summer cycles are getting erratic. For us, for this year, October, November were damn good. The winter set in very early. November was superb. December, first half got warm. December, second half was again very good.

January, first half, especially in the hindi Heartland got warm. January, second fortnight was very good. Right now, it's on the colder side. So it's like -- yes.

And the disparities geography-wise, North, South, East, West would be similar or there are varied differences there?

Most of it is dominated by the North, of course. But overall, from a number perspective, I think we had a pretty good winter brand outcomes, and that's what matters. ohan Goenka:

Sameer, to also answer on Manish's question, you are right. So the winter was very harsh. But in winter, some portfolios have done exceedingly well, like BoroPlus Lotion has done exceedingly well compared to the BoroPlus antiseptic cream. So it is -- again, it is not like just because the winter was very harsh. So all the brands of winters fired. There is also a difference in our portfolio's growth, okay.

Got it, Mohanji. That's very helpful. Last question, if I may squeeze in. What would be the blended price decrease for Emami at a portfolio level for the consumer? So there is a GST cut for 80%, 90% of your portfolio, different buckets of GST cuts for different products. But at a consumer, at a portfolio level, what would be the price decrease effective post the GST cut from 23rd September? Yes. Roughly about 8%.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you, Sameer. Thank you, IIFL, and thank you all the participants for joining us today for our Q3 results conference call. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Capital Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Disclaimer - The following transcript has been edited for language, errors and grammar and therefore, it may not be a verbatim representation of the call