Share India Securities Ltd

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Share India Securities Limited.

As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch- tone phone. Please note that this conference is been recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Amit Kumar Sharma from Adfactors PR Investor Relations team. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening, everyone. On behalf of the entire management, I thank all the participants present on the call and wish you a very warm welcome to our Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call.

To guide us through the results today, we have with us the senior management team of Share India Securities Limited, represented by Mr. Kamlesh Shah, Managing Director; Mr. Sachin Gupta, CEO and Whole Time Director; Mr. Rajesh Gupta, Director; and Mr. Abhinav Gupta, President, Capital Markets.

Before we begin, please note that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not a guarantee of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. We will commence the call with the opening brief by Mr. Kamlesh Shah, Managing Director; followed by the business highlights from Mr.

Sachin Gupta, CEO and Whole-Time Director. After this, we will open the forum for Q&A.

With that, I will now hand over the call to Mr. Shah to share his comments. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Yes. Good evening. Good evening, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for the investor call covering our performance for quarter 4 and financial year 2024-2025. The past year presented both our company and the broader industry with unique set of headwinds, including geopolitical uncertainties, significant selling pressure from the FPIs, regulatory measures aimed at moderating derivative market volumes and correction in the value of investments.

Consequently, our company's performance has been below our usual standard. A trend echoed by many of our peers, who have also reported losses or considerable drop in the revenue and profitability.

Looking ahead however, the macroeconomic indicators for India appear promising. I can probably say that India has become the fourth largest economy in the world, surpassing Japan.

We are observing positive GDP growth encouraging inflation figures, interest rate reductions by RBI, increase in the liquidity within the system and supportive measures from government in budget. Furthermore, appointment of new SEBI chairperson with forward-looking perspective suggest a potential uplift for industry's overall performance.

The recent effective handling of border situation with our neighbouring country should further bluster national sentiment and economic capabilities. With this, overview of the macroeconomic

and geopolitical landscape, I would now like to present our financial result for the financial year 2024 -2025.

First, we shall address stand-alone quarter 4 financial year 2024-2025. Total revenue from operations was INR188 crores, a decrease of 28% on quarter-on-quarter basis, profit before tax and profit after tax were INR17 crores and INR16 crores, respectively, representing 79% decline in PBT and 73% decline in profit after tax quarter-on-quarter basis.

Earnings per share for the quarter stood at INR0.63 on the face value of INR2 per share. Coming to stand-alone full year financial year '24, '25, the total revenue from the operations amounted to INR1,138 crores showing a modest increase of about 1.68% year-on-year basis. PBT and PAT were INR320 crores and INR247 crores respectively, indicating a decline of approximately 19% PBT, an 18% decline in the PAT year-on-year basis. Earnings for the full fiscal year was INR11.73 on face value of INR2 per share. The net worth for the year on stand-alone basis, works out to INR1,960 crores.

Coming to the consolidated quarter 4 financial year '24, '25. The total revenue from the operation was INR239 crores, a 30% decrease compared to the previous quarter. Profit before tax and profit after tax reached INR23 crores and INR19 crores, respectively, reflecting an approximately 79% decline in profit before tax and 77% decline in profit after tax quarter-on- quarter basis. The earnings per share on consolidated basis was INR0.71 on the face value of INR2 per share.

Coming to the consolidated full financial year 2024, '25, total revenue from the operation was INR1,449 crores, showing a year-on-year decline of 2.5%. Profit before tax and profit after tax were INR431 crores and INR328 crores, respectively, representing approximately 23% decrease in both on year-on-year basis. The earnings per share for the full fiscal year was INR15.58 on INR2 paid up equity shares.

Consolidated net worth for the year has jumped to INR2,300 crores-plus. While reporting -- while reported figure may appear challenging, I want to assure you that during this period of global geopolitical instability, our company has proactively utilized this time to strengthen our core business area, identifying promising new ventures, expand our collaborative partnership and explore untapped market.

Furthermore, the anticipated decrease in the revenue and profitability over past 2 quarters was something management had foreseen, and we have implemented appropriate strategies to ensure a strong rebound as the business environment improves.

Our focus remains on creating sustainable business model. And to that end, we have made strategic acquisitions in past and continue to identify synergy-based opportunities. Key milestone achieved during the year include strategic investment in Metropolitan Stock Exchange, obtaining PMS license and merger of Silver Leaf securities, a subsidiary aimed at leveraging our HFT capability and expanding our proprietary trading into the international market.

To conclude, I would like to highlight supportive developments within the industry that are likely to play a positive influence in the future performance. This includes removal of intraday trading limit and significant increase in the limit based on the delta factor, which are expected to stimulate higher trading volume and drive growth within the industry.

This was a very significant step to see that we maintain our volume and liquidity, the recent clarification regarding investment opportunities, which will enable investment in group companies and other businesses. So with the kind of net worth that we have of exceeding INR2,300 crores, we will be able to invest the surplus fund into the group companies and other businesses, potentially enhancing our overall return on investment. And yesterday, there was one more circular from SEBI that has clarified we will have 2 weekly expiry for multi exchanges, that is one expiry per exchange for weekly contracts.

With this, I would like to thank you for your support and cooperation. Over to you -- I would like to hand over the proceeding to Mr. Sachin Gupta, who would highlight the business opportunities and throw more light on the performance of the company. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Kamlesh sir, for the detailed presentation of the results of financial year '24, '25. Good evening, everyone. Here, I'm Sachin Gupta. So as Kamlesh sir has explained the challenges in the last financial year because of some rigorous regulatory changes at extreme market volatility in quarter 4. So last year was a bit challenging. And I personally believe where I am into the day-to-day operations of the company, I believe the worst is behind us now. And we will see that things have started improving from here on.

As Kamlesh sir had explained, this particular shock was a little bit expected as we were in constant touch with the regulator and the exchanges that the kind of measures they were bringing in, they will take some time to get stabilized, but it will take some time to formulate your business strategy around those new changes. So as I said, things should start -- things -- we are already feeling that things are better now, and worst is over.

But the next 2 to 3 quarters, we'll see that we will be able to achieve the same numbers that we were doing in first half of the last financial year. So still, we are in phase of where market is adopting all the changes and sir explained after the appointment of new SEBI chief, so he is a bit positive towards the market. His goal is to regulate and also grow the volumes, grow the market overall.

So as far as focus is concerned. I will just share some numbers. In retail clients, we have seen a jump of 30% on year-on-year basis. Last year, we were having 35,380 clients. And this year, we are having more than 46,252 clients. So, the client base has increased by 30%. Institutional clients last year, we closed at 52 impairments.

This year, if the desk has done 137 impairments, this is a jump of 250%. MTF is one business where we are very bullish in the coming future. Our book has increased by more than 330%. It was at INR72 crores at the end of financial year 2024, this year we've closed the book at INR239 crores.

As far as NBFC is concerned, we have increased branches from 61 to 80 branches now. Client base has a bit reduced from 69,000 to 52,000 because even in NBFC, we have seen a trouble in 3 quarters for the -- especially for the personal loans in the villages and the side. Book size is broadly same because INR260 crores and INR260 crores.

The reason is we have shifted our focus on -- more on secured SME loans rather than only doing unsecured personal loans. So, book size, we have maintained, and we believe the trouble period in NBFC is also gone. And this financial year, we'll see NBFC stabilizing and giving much better returns and book is also covered now like it's not 100% unsecured. It is a secured book also.

BSE options, we have seen a major growth like last year, our market share was 3.5%. This year, our market share is 5.8% in BSE options, and we have seen that BSE is one thing which has given us a good edge to the overall business. And as I explained, PMS is another product we have just added.

And Share India is also enhancing the visibility by opening the branches in the prominent locations at the different cities like we have recently opened a branch in Connaught Place in Delhi. It's a pure-play retail branch, and we opened a branch in the main land of Kolkata, Ahmedabad. So these are the 3 branches we have recently opened in last 6 months. And so the focus in the financial area is mainly, as earlier, also we were focusing on retail and wealth.

So with this period where prop trading is going through some trouble period, we are trying to develop the ancillary business in different verticals. Retail and wealth is one thing we are very bullish on. And for retail, what we are doing, we are developing product based on AI where, you will see AI is recommending the stocks, AI will be doing the technical charts. You can choose your stock through AI. So AI will play a major part in our product which we'll roll out in end of third quarter.

So we are planning everything accordingly. So once that we crossed at INR1,000 crores number, clients will go up, revenue will go up. And MTF helps you not only in cash market volumes, it also gives you a runoff effect in the derivatives and other products -- other wealth products also.

So PMS will roll out -- we got the license, we'll roll out in July and very ambitious plan. And next 3 years, PMS will also start showing positive growth. And as far as retail numbers are concerned, as I said, MTF target is INR1,000 crores in 3 years. Retail clients so number, we are targeting 2 lakh to 2.5 lakh clients in next 3 years.

The reason is it's not only off-line, so SEBI has allowed retail for Algo, which from first of August, retail can also carpet in Algo. We want to make this Algo thing for Share India, like think Algo, think Share India. This will be a tagline, and we are going to go very hard for Algo trading for the retail.

We want to capture this opportunity to penetrate into retail business using our algo strength and technology provided by the uTrade. So wealth and retail is one thing we are going to focus very hard, PMS and wealth site. And once the PMS gets stabilized, we'll also go for AIF. And on the retail side, our focus is on MTF and Algo for retail thing, where uTrade will provide us the product, and our target is not less than 2 lakh to 2.5 lakh customers in the next 3 years.

So, Silverleaf, again, is very important acquisition. So last year, it took some time, but we hope this year, that acquisition will be completed. Silverleaf is 1 HFT firm, which is doing really great. And once the acquisition is completed, their number will also be added in Share India book, and this is a diversified prop trading.

It's not the traditional prop trading that Share India is doing. So that will give us more stability.

Yes, our business is highly regulated, so challenges are always there. But as we see the basket, if we go into -- if we see the retail side, wealth side, not PMS, addition of institution, AIF, MTF, prop desk and addition of Silverleaf, this makes our company well diversified and sustainable.

So Share India is ready to take to the current challenges and numbers will definitely improve and things will be much clearer. And next 2 to 3 quarters, we hope that we'll be able to catch the last year numbers very soon. And we are working very hard for all the investors and entire companies, very motivated and bullish on the current business. Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you very much. The first question is from the line of Akshay Sharma from Golden Myriad. Please go ahead.

Sir, my question is -- I have 2 questions. Firstly, sir, basically, if you can give us the breakup of revenue, trading revenue and I mean, in terms of -- from broking and from prop book? And secondly, if we have any unrealized loss ending in the books, what will be that amount?

Abhinav, do you want to answer the first part of the question?

Yes, sure. Please, sir. So in order to answer your first part of question, the percentage in terms of revenue drop this year as everyone has explained that due to regulatory reasons, there has been a drop. So in terms of revenue, it is around 62%, and rest business is from broking and NBFC, all combined. And in terms of profitability prop, this year would have been somewhere around 47% and rest coming from all the other businesses combined.

As far as the unrealized business is concerned, I think all the accounting measures account for that all the unrealized gain has been taken care in this P&L. But I'll let Sachin sir, and Kamlesh sir comment further on that.

Yes. We maintain conservative approaches. And we know auditors also MSK. So we maintain accounting discipline. And as of today, there are no unrealized losses that have not been accounted.

No, I think he's asking for the fair-value losses in the books, correct? Yes, yes.

So fair value numbers, it is because of the investments in our book and because last quarter, the stock prices have gone down, so we have to book some fair value loss. That number is around INR42 crores. Unless that quarter was not that bad, so fair value loss was around INR42 crores in the fourth quarter.

Yes. But to answer your question, there's no further loss that has been needed to be accounted.

As far as 31st of March, all the accounting has been done completely.

Okay. Okay. Sir, if you can help me what is the size of your prop book like you use INR300 crores and you scale it to maybe INR1,000 crores. So how exactly does it happen?

So what is your question exactly? Like what kind of margins we use for the prop trading or investments you're asking, what exactly you're asking? I think he is asking for MTF book. You're asking for MTF book?

No. So, sir, basically, I think 6% of our revenue comes from this prop book profits plus brokerage, which we have generated from the prop book, right?

No, there is no brokerage in the prop book.

Okay. So these are nothing, but the profit from the prop book which we see as revenues? Correct? Correct. You're right.

Right. So sir, technically, if I see, 50% of the business is that and the 50%, no. So in the last conference calls, which I have attended, so we had this -- we generate around 15% to 18% to 20% plus returns in this prop book. And the last 2 quarters, if I see this doesn't look as consistent as -- so I just wanted to understand whether are these hedged or arbitrage strategies or these are leveraged ones? How does it work? So, Abhinav, do you want to answer?

I'll start and then you can add on. So you're absolutely right. The prop book constitute of 2 components, as Sachin sir has explained. Number one is of the hedge strategies that we trade and the second one of the investment book that we have in our company.

So because of the market having a negative sentiment in the last quarter on our investment book that we had of all the equities in other companies that we hold, we had to book a fair value loss of INR42 crores. And that's why that number appears to be skewed. From a return perspective on our proprietary trading business, as mentioned earlier, we continue to maintain completely hedged strategies.

The result on those strategies has seen a slight drop because of the regulatory reasons, as sir has explained and the number of expiries dropping from 4 to 2, but as said earlier in this call, we expect that number to stabilize going forward.

And as Kamlesh sir also told that new SEBI chief seems to be quite positive towards the development of the overall market. So we believe that with the current regime if we don't see any aggressive changes from the regulatory side. So things will start going up and the returns will start stabilizing, and we'll see the better returns from the quarter 4.

Got it. Just last question, sir, hedge strategy portfolio. There is no cash segment. So everything is F&I options, right? No, we do cash future Algo also.

So in this cash for the future. So I think future has been expired, so we'll have to sell. So we don't have any continued cash position still, right?

No, no, no, no. That is on a regular basis. So if we square off the future, we also square off the cash position. We don't keep positions naked. We don't think position matter.

We don't keep naked positions. They are all completely hedged. So we are not exposed to the market movement. The fair value loss is because of the investments in the book, proprietary book. That is not because of the unhedged strategies.

The next question is from the line of Rohan Shah who is an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Sir, I have a question with regard to the options trading business. Given the -- like the weekly expiries, which used to happen when a lot of expiries across the exchanges, we see a big cut in them, and they formed a substantial part of the options turnover. So I would just like to understand how has that shaped up for us?

So SEBI has made the changes from 5 expiries to 2 expiries and restricted it between the 2 exchanges. So that is the primary reason that volumes have gone down. And now see participants, so it depends on the variety of participants, like retailer, hedger, speculate, everyone. So everyone's volume went down, but now volumes have started picking up. So we can see that BSE particularly is showing a good take-off of the volumes since November.

So BSE is one thing. And again, Nifty. Nifty volumes compared to the number have gone up.

So both NSE and BSE are showing good signs of recovery in the volumes. So it may take 2 to 3 quarters to cover up that kind of volumes which we're seeing earlier. But the first part of the - - that the business is going down that is over now. And more partitions are coming in. Retailers

are coming in. The people who were trading on a daily basis because of the expiry, they have changed their strategy.

We have also changed our strategy. Earlier, it was volume-based, now they are better margin based. So now we are not trading much, we are relying on better margins. So we have to tweak our strategy based on the current scenario. And that's why we all see that things are going up from this quarter and next 2 to 3 quarters, things will be much better.

As Kamlesh sir said, SEBI has shown the positive sign by sticking that intraday position limit thing and also on the end of day, SEBI has given a much liberal positions in the position limit circular. So that is a very positive step from the regulatory side and both our exchanges, NSE and BSE, they both are...

At the same time, that definitely increases the margin limits for the market participants, right?

For institutional investors, that's not a concern. But for retailers, that would surely act as a hurdle.

So are we seeing any kind of a business loss for that?

No. But position limit, as there is no restriction on the position limit in intraday now.

No, no, no. I meant about the margin increase. You're talking about ELM. Yes, yes. Yes, the margin increase.

Yes, margin increase on the expiry day is definitely a challenge. See, sir, I have already explained, see SEBI has come up with 7 different regulations on November 1. So increasing margin on the expiry day, reducing the expires, all these were implemented on November 1. So combining everything, it has actually dented the overall volumes and it has impacted prop shops, retailers, it has impacted everyone, right?

So -- but now things are starting, going up and industry, different organizations like NE, CPI and some broker forums, they are meeting SEBI, explaining them about the challenges industry is facing. SEBI is also considering rationalizing the margins on the expiry day so that people can participate and trade more. But as of now, yes, increase in margin is a dent for the retailers, as far as and everyone, even for the institutional clients and for everyone.

So that's why we are seeing that now we have changed our strategy from the volume base to more margins. So only what we were doing, we were churning it a lot and earning very nice margin. Now our churning has been reduced, and we are relying on the better margins. This is what we have to do in the higher margin regime in this scenario.

So people are taking their strategies, including Share India and now we are seeing that those strategies have started working, and things will be better in the coming future.

Understood, understood. Just another question, sir. Like basically, as you mentioned just now that you are seeing the participation increasing the volumes have started to increase as they were

before a year or something. So just wanted to understand this participation increase has gone up from the retail side or institutional side?

I think the combined effect is both Rohan, to be honest with you, because the retail participation and the entire institutional participation is a factor of the entire stabilization in the market sentiment and also the behavior of the index level and the entire positivity in the market segment for that matter.

So it's across the board, stability of all the regulations that were implemented in the last couple of quarters that has happened. So now this quarter, we are seeing a lot of stability coming into the ecosystem. We are seeing green shoot, but I think it would take us another couple of quarters while we achieve the earlier kind of levels in terms of turnover, but stability has surely started setting into the ecosystem as a whole.

I also want to add one point, Abhinav. So earlier the market was totally dependent on the indexes, correct. The concern with the SEBI was, it is only index-based trading stocks were -- people are not even trading in stocks, volumes are very low. So the idea of SEBI was to make a market a broader-based market, not only index-based market.

So what that is, they allow the changes to list more stocks on the futures and reduce the indexes, correct? So, what is happening even today, we received the list of many stocks, even that base is increasing. So 2, 3 months back, they added some stocks. Now, they are again -- they are adding some stocks.

So we are seeing that people have actually started trading much in stock. So that, as I said, business strategy is changing stabilizing. People have adopted to the new situation. And as SEBI wants, the participation will widen into different stocks and the indexes also. So that will stabilize the volatility also in the market.

Understood. Just on that point, over like the last year or something, we've seen a drop in the new retail entries in the market, like new retail participation, which was a continuous uptick after the lockdown. So can we expect the similar in the future.

Sorry, can you repeat that question again? I think there was some disturbance in the line.

No, I was saying that over last year, maybe, let's say, last 4 to 6 quarters, we've seen a drop in the new demat openings by the retail participants in the market. Correct. Yes. Abhinav, let me start.

So I got 2 questions. So the answer, I see nothing can go up straight away like this. So retail numbers are going up, adding up every month-to-month basis. And we are seeing that last 4 years, retail participation has gone up by multiple folds. So it has to consolidate.

I am referring to the last 1-year period because after the COVID lockdown, there was definitely a very big spike, but that started to go down in the last 4 to 6 quarters.

Rohan, I'm trying to answer that. Give me a minute only. So because the numbers are going up, so we have to see the consolidation, correct? So consolidation is happening, nothing else. So we still believe that consolidation will stay there. Number might not go as they were going up earlier. But we are more looking at the change in the behavior of the consumer.

Like, now, they are trading more in stocks, not only in indexes, correct? How can we give them better strategies to trade in stocks? How can we give them AI-based strategy to trade in stocks?

How can we use better platforms to trade, correct? What kind of brokerages we should charge that they should trade more in stocks and indexes both.

So now we are not dependent only on the new flow of the customers. but we are also depending on the change in behavior of the customer. As progressively, SEBI allowed the retailer, this is a first country where the regulator has allowed retailers to do Algo trading on the open APIs. So consolidation will stay there like in last 3, 4 years, we were seeing numbers were going up like anything.

So consolidation is 100% welcome. No issues at all. We have to prepare ourselves to accept the change in the behavior of the customer. And this is our goal. And we believe as every in 1 decade or 8 years new concept and got introduced to the retailers like Zerodha introduced some brokerage plans 10 years ago, and now we see what happened in the industry.

So Algo -- the way, SEBI is pushing, the way industry is ready, Algo is going to another thing where you will give the open APIs and AI strategies for the retail as people will definitely trade and things will start changing for the retailers and for the entire market.

And Rohan, just to add on to that point. Demat account opening is a factor of market sentiment as a whole as well. So, whenever there is a positivity in terms of market. I think -- so you see a change in behavior according to those parameters as well.

From a company perspective, as Sachin sir has already told you, we have an advantage of having a base effect that from our current levels, we can grow very significantly. And also, we are trying to realign our strategies in terms of customer acquisition so that we focus more on cash-oriented and Algo-oriented products rather than anything else.

The next question is from the line of Aditya Shah from Meteor Wealth Management.

My question is on the loan book. Sir, with the loan book decline, how does the company plan to grow in the coming quarters. And what is the risk -- kind of risk management strategies have you placed to maintain the asset quality? Those are my first 2 questions. So Sachin Sir will start on it.

Rajesh sir is on the call. Rajesh sir will answer.

Let me to answer, please. This is Rajesh Gupta. Mr. Aditya, our loan book has not decreased, but it has increased only marginally from the last year. Yes, we are -- we have adopted many strategies to mitigate this, main strategy is to balance our loan book between unsecured to secured. Initially, our book -- main book consisted of unsecured loans.

Now we are balancing it with the secured loans. Our strategy is to maintain this to -- by 50%, 50%. And we all know that there -- the main risk is only in unsecured book. This risk is across the Board and secured books are naturally less risky and it will naturally reduce our risk in the future.

And the follow-up, sir, I mean, what are the risk management strategies for your, the maintenance at least?

So as I told you, main strategy is to shift from unsecured loans to the secured loans sector segment. This is the best strategy. And to pursue the -- as our unsecured loan is going down, so we can follow it up more strongly.

May I add something in the risk management strategy? Yes, please.

Yes. So as Rajesh sir has claimed, we have already a mix of secured and unsecured book, and on the unsecured side, we have a very clear strategy that we avoid concentration geographically that we don't do business in 1 state or 1 district or something. So we have a limitation that above certain number, we do not get the customers, or we do not open the branches in 1 state.

We see that there should not be a consultation of particular religion in that particular village. We see so many things like the family structure of the borrower, the reason of borrowing. So there are a number of things that we follow as a risk management made before giving the loan. They're paying capacity and so many things, correct?

So we have a proper ecosystem. And also, we have moved to -- 50% book has moved to the secured line now to the major cities and mainly focusing on SMEs and all. So now we are quite comfortably positioned in NBFC. And this year,NBFC should give us a good return.

Great, sir. And my last question is, sir, do you have any plans to tie up with banks to increase the broking business? Like how can banks like.

Yes. So currently, there is no proposal in front of the board. Right now, we keep on doing multiple strategies in terms of customer acquisition. As and when there is an announcement to be made, we'll do so.

Okay. Okay. If I may, sir. Sir, last question, what is the target to increase your AUM, sir, in the coming years, a percentage would also do.

In terms of wealth management business you're talking.

Yes, yes, sir. Yes.

So as Sachin sir has explained, we are trying to penetrate into this market by making our presence felt into the hot spots and essentially high visibility areas, which include areas like Central Delhi and Kolkata and everything. That business has sort of started being good business in the last few years. In terms of expansion, we are not setting a very aggressive target for the same business because we want to let that business stabilize and focus more on distribution before we set a very high set of targets over that business.

Abhinav, I want to add something here. So sir, on the distribution side, the 2 things we are focusing on. One is insurance distribution, and one is mutual fund bonds and FDs. So what we're doing, insurance is doing great last year, insurance rate, INR75 crores premium. This is like 35% to 40% jump on an year-over-year basis.

And on the bottom line, also insurance business did very well. And this year, we believe that we -- our internal target is, we should touch 3-figure premium this year. So that is, again, 30% to 35% jump on year-on-year basis. So insurance distribution is doing really great with a lot of corporate plans we have added in '24, '25.

And now -- and mostly clients are from the western part of India. This year, we are focusing more on the northern part, and we are also entering into like real estate, builder space for the insurance and all. So we are getting good success there, and we are hopeful that team is working very hard and we have a detailed operational plan where we should touch 3-figure premium this year for the insurance.

And as far as mutual fund AUM or other ancillary services, we have tied up with an institute based in Chandigarh, where they will train people on behalf of us. And after the training of 3 years, we are going to hire a big chunk of people for the northern part, mainly for Punjab, Chandigarh, Delhi, Himachal and Haryana.

And our aggressive target is on mutual fund AUM should at least grow by 100% this financial year on year-on-year basis. So these are the 2 verticals we are focusing, and professional teams are working on it, and we hope so that this business should show good results this year also.

The next question is from the line of Satvik from Jefferies.

So just on MSE first, since SEBI has decided on expiry date to be Tuesday and Thursday as per the circular release yesterday. Where does that leave MSE given it was allotted Friday earlier.

Is there a push from SEBI to create a liquid FX 40 cash market before derivatives can be launched on it?

Kamlesh sir, you want to start? Kamlesh sir, you want to add?

Yes. Right now, right now, only 2 exchange had a liquid cash market, and they had the derivative market development. So 2 expiries have been given to the 2 exchanges. That is Tuesday and Thursday. So the exchange can select any one day for their benchmark indices for weekly

contract. Now Metropolitan Stock Exchange and other exchanges which have planned to enter into equity market will take some time.

It may take 1 year or 1.5 year, 2. So right now, yesterday only the SEBI has come up with the circular that exchange can choose either Tuesday or Thursday day. As far as Metropolitan stock exchange and other exchanges are concerned, they will have to develop the cash market first. So it's a process.

So maybe down the line after a year, they will review again everything. Already, SEBI has given approval to Metropolitan Stock Exchange for Friday, but before that is implemented, they will have to develop the cash market and the derivative market to seek different expiry date. Like -- I mean, that will be taken up only as and when they cross the benchmark turnover on the indices, I hope this clarifies your doubt.

Yes, yes, very clear. My second question is on the gross and net delta base open interest limits that have been proposed. What are you hearing from your interactions with the market. There are media reports circulating that are suggesting that the proposed -- I mean, the final limits will actually be much higher at 100 billion on a gross basis and 15 billion on net basis, but intraday monitoring was excluded. So is there any truth to this?

Yes, yes, yes. See, we had a meeting recently, in which detailed discussion had happened. And you have the proper knowledge about the issue. There are 2 things, one is end of the day position.

End of the day position, earlier, it was on a normal growth basis. And now they've shifted the entire working to delta-based. Now Delta base will provide an additional advantage because it will be considered as a net position so that the limit would be much, much higher.

And the limit of INR500 crores also will be revised to INR1,500 crores on delta based at end of the day. In addition to that, they will also monitor the growth position that will be INR10,000 crores on short side and INR10,000 crores on a long side. So, this is a very constructive move.

The earlier limit which was implemented on 20th March 2020 during the COVID period was INR500 crores. And that was causing a lot of concern for the development of the market. Now with all those things removed, now there is no -- I mean they are proposing no intraday limits and end of the day limit also has been liberalized. So this will help a lot in the development of the market and participation by all the stakeholders.

So this is very, very helpful. Just to follow up on the prop side, do we see like this to be the bottom quarter and sequentially improvement from here? And also wanted to know how big is the prop book. Can you -- is it possible to quantify it, please? Sachin ji please tell.

So, I will start the answer and then Abhinav can answer the last part of the question. So, as far as the prop bottom is concerned, so I will tell you one thing very clearly. Even in the last quarter, the major dent was because of the fair value change, correct? So the investment is still in the book. It was because -- mainly because of the fair value market goes up, your number goes up

and market goes -- number goes down. So that's entirely different thing. As far as regular prop trading is concerned, it was not that bad, it was not that challenging, correct?

Still from the April onwards, we see as SEBI has stopped this intraday position limit regulation.

It has boosted the confidence in the participants. So business has actually shown good results, and we see the prop numbers will start improving from the fourth quarter and -- as you rightly said, we also believe that fourth quarter should be the bottom as far as prop trading numbers are concerned because we are seeing that retailers have also start picking their volumes.

And so vice-versa prop numbers are going up. So all over things have started going up. So we believe the fourth quarter should be the bottom for the prop numbers and from all the things that.

Rest of question is the quantum of our retail book. Abhinav, if you can quantify or if you can answer, please?

So I'll just start on Satvik in terms of prop book, as Sachin sir has already explained.

Sequentially, we should start seeing green shoot. Stability has already started setting in. And if you look at in terms of ADTO, you would already see that Q3 and Q4 were more or less similar.

There was not much of a difference over there.

And in terms of quantification of loan book, you need to understand there are certain limits that are involved, banking limits that are involved. And currently, we are working on the same numbers that we had last year. But this year, when I mean for fiscal year '26, the number should be a little higher than what it was last year.

Understood. Understood. This is very helpful. Just last one, if I can squeeze in. On the Silverleaf acquisition, is it possible to quantify any metrics? Or are we not giving it out yet? What kind of metric are you looking at? Top line, bottom line kind of metric?

So it will be an EPS accretive acquisition. And as and when the acquisition happens, we can't disclose as where, but fiscal year, it would be an EPS accretive is what I can state officially right now.

Ladies and gentlemen, in the interest of time we'll take this as a last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kamlesh Shah for closing comments.

Yes, yes. Sachin, yes, we would like to thank all the investors. The session was very interesting.

It highlighted a lot of new areas where we are working and as well as the queries were also was from well-informed investors. And this will also help us to build our business model. And as Sachin Ji has explained, a lot of new initiatives that has been taken by Share India. So we can say that the past 2 quarters were consolidation period and from here on, with the positive developments, we could look for a better year to follow.

And I would like to thank all the investors for the trust and the confidence that they have in the company. And we seek your continued support and from our end, we will leave no stones

unturned to see that we meet your expectation and deliver to your expectation. Thank you so very much for participation in large number.

The management would like to thank you for all the inputs that has been provided by you. And thank you very much. Thank you. Sachin Ji, you would like to add anything?

Not everything has to get consolidated and then start to go up. We need to stay relevant; we need to stay positive. And the success is not in achieving growth in one year. Success is growing continuously year-on-year basis. So consistency is what we require.

We might see some challenging quarters, but believe me, things are very much in control, and we are strategizing it very aggressively and we'll execute it very aggressively and coming years are going to be very good for Share India, and we welcome this consolidation. This consolidation is one we have all experienced in the past and we'll come out of it very positively and the future is very bright for all Share India, and I wish best of luck to the shareholders and everyone. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Share India Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.