Berger Paints (I) Ltd

MR. NITIN GUPTA – EMKAY GLOBAL FINANCIAL SERVICES

I would like to welcome all to Berger Paints India Limited. So Q3 FY 25 result conference call.

I thank management for allowing us to host. We have with us today Mr. Abhijit Roy, Managing Director, and CEO, Mr. Kaushik Ghosh, CFO Mr. Sujyoti Mukherjee Vice President - Finance and Account and Mr Sayantan Sarkar GM-Finance & Accounts

I shall now hand over the call to the management for the opening remarks post, which we will proceed with the question and answer session.

over to you. The gentleman.

• The management presentation has already been circulated, and it is already updated in the website.

• I would request Mr. Abhijit Roy, our MD and CEO, to walk you through this presentation followed by your questions.

Over to you, Mr. Roy.

We had a high single digit volume growth in decorative segment.

There was uptick in both. Sequentially there was an uptick both in volume and value. Growth.

Protective business has a strong performance in the quarter.

We continue to gain market share in quarter 3

current market share is in excess of 20%

operating margin remained in the guided range and improved sequentially

company improved its net cash position at the end of the quarter.

If you look at the volume growth for quarter 3, financially at 25, that is, last quarter.

We had a volume growth of 7.4%

Ytd basis, we had a volume growth of 7.7%

value growth 0 point 4%

on a Ytd basis. It is 0 point 9%.

The volume value gap that you see is mainly on account of 2 reasons.

one product price decrease, undertaken in earlier quarters.

and second, stronger sale of high volume and low value, products like texture, paints tile, adhesive and admixtures

and muted sales of high value, product like enamel exterior premium segment did well.

Waterproofing and construction. Chemical segment had a strong double digit growth.

protective and infrastructure. Business continued its good performance in the quarter

sustained growth trend was observed.

If you see 4 years, figure

the volume growth is 15.6 at a Cagr level

and value growth is 16.7.

If you come down to 3.3 years, also 11.8 and 10.4,

so the volume value gap in both these cases, if you see, are negligible.

but on a 2 year, and this year there is a gap in a 2 year basis. It is 9.3 volume growth and 3.6 value growth.

As I said, 2 primary reasons.

One is, of course, the price drop of 4 to 5%,

and the second reason is sale or increased sale of categories, like tile adhesive texture, coatings and admixtures which are mostly of add, you know, waterproofing and construction chemical.

which results in you know distortion in the volume growth compared to the value group.

If you look at the gross margin percentage, it's been pretty healthy, as you can see, and

at 39.8% of quarter 3.

It is more or less hovering around in that range of 39.3 to 40.5 over the quarters. It's been in that range, so no great

change, as far as the gross margin is concerned. In spite of intense competition, gross margins are being held at those levels.

The same holds true, for Ebitda margin as well

is at 16.2%. It's been hovering in that range. Only we have always guided that it will be possibly be in the 15 to 17% range.

It's ahead of 16. So that 16.2 is where we are, as far as operating margin is concerned.

gross margin contracted marginally over the corresponding period of last year

on account of product price reduction undertaken in the last financial year.

Currency, depreciation in the current quarter.

and some inventory impact of monomer price increase.

However, prices have now started coming down.

Operating margin was lower on a year on year basis.

however, improved sequentially on the back of some operating leverage.

Operating margin, however, remained on the higher end of the band of 15 to 17%. As guided earlier

profit. Growth at net level, saw an uptick, aided by dividend received from Bj. And Nepal.

So this is in terms of

numbers 0 point 4% total income from operations.

We we operating profit negative 2.8

dbt, 11% growth and and pat 16.3 Dbt. As as I mentioned, there's a Bj and Nepal dividend which came in, and that's why it is one positive so much

on the console.

It is 0.9% on Ytd basis for standalone.

it is 0.9%. Ebitda is negative 4.6 profit

is 7.2% 1.9% negative in pvit, pvt, 0.8% negative and pat is 0.9% positive

decorative business recorded, high single digit volume, growth.

exterior premium, segment did well in this quarter.

Construction. Chemical waterproofing and wood coating products had a robust performance. Strong double digit growth, aggressive network expansion continued

added 2,000 plus retail touch points

installed around 1,800 color bank printing machines.

and our urban initiative is progressing well.

Many of the high growth products continue to do well.

the waterproofing and construction chemical. We have added a few more products, the ranges expanded, and we are doing very well in this category.

Many new stores have been set up, especially in the urban centers.

and they are giving us good results. Experience business outlets

which are working well for us Berger. Exclusive stores, which are basically

these are exclusive points where one can see, touch, feel the textures, the various types of paint, spend some time with the family and then buy paint.

industrial business, protective coatings. Business continued its leadership position with strong performance in the quarter.

aided by infrastructure, push from the government.

automotive, general industrial and powder coatings. Business line had a muted growth.

improved net cash position in the quarter.

December 24.

From September 24. Level. It improved from 2 42 crores

to 377 crores

on the Consolidated level. Our total sales growth.

our income from operations was 3.2%

Ebitda level. If you look at it, 1.7% negative

and pat 1.4% negative again, Ytd.

December 1.9% growth.

Ebitda, 8.5 point 4% negative and pat is 2.9% negative

companies overseas subsidiary bolex. Poland had a steady top line growth.

The profitability was muted on account of some one off project expense which will not be there in the next quarters.

Companies overseas, subsidiary. Bj. And Nepal had a robust turnaround performance on top line.

aided by a low base and improvement in business conditions. In Nepal

profitability, growth was strong, aided by the Scale Effect

company, subsidiary stp, limited at a quarter of steady top line growth.

However, profitability suffered on account of deterioration in product mix, owing to low traction in admixture, sales.

Sbl speciality coatings also had a modest growth in top line

and a flat growth at the operating profit level.

The joint venture, Berger, Becker coatings, and another quarter of very healthy growth of top line and Profitability

Company's joint venture. Berger Nippon paint automotive coatings had a strong top line growth

and profitability and showed significant improvement. Aided by gross margin expansion, business outlook.

we remain optimistic on decorative business, improving its growth sequentially

on the back of likely improvement in consumer sentiment

pooled by favorable budget announcements and adequate monsoon, and the volume Value Gap

is expected to bridge due to weaning of price decrease impact in the coming quarters.

protective business prospects seen better on the back of government, spending on infrastructure, automotive, and other industrial businesses

likely to perform better in the coming quarters.

Geopolitics and currency, depreciation appear as likely risks.

This is our new head office, from which, from where I'm speaking, therefore, this little delay, because there was some small issues there in a new place. Always there are some challenges.

So this is in the form of a paint can, as you can see.

with a rooftop which is solar powered.

It's a unique architecture.

And and the 100th year

we had to shift out from the old premises where we are running out of space.

So this is the new office which we have come out with

yesterday, in fact, was the inauguration

inaugurated by the West Bengal Industries Minister Sashi Paja, and this is one photograph

where all of us are present

from Berger side, and the minister herself.

Thank you, and I await questions from all of you.

I hand over the call to my colleague, Kevin Shah, to moderate the Q. And a session over to you. Kevin.

please, highlight your full name and the organization you are representing.

The 1st question is from the line of Aneruthi. Joshi, please go ahead.

sir. we have seen the new entrant in the market has reached

more than almost 1,200 crore sales, probably in 9 months itself. And now the new plant will also start in the Eastern India. So now, Berger in a way uniquely, has got some extra time compared to other peers

to understand. The strategies and the aggression, and even the product, portfolio, etcetera. So now what will be our strategy to counter as it enters the key region of Eastern India. That is question number one

question number 2 is we are from the channel checks, and even other companies have also highlighted that there is, some green shoots are visible in January. So is that trend observed by Berger also.

And do we see the overall growth rates sustaining in in this quarter entire quarter also. Or this is this a structural

reversal in the growth rates of the inter sector, or we will have to wait for more time to see how the trend pans out.

I I don't think you know there is any material impact on where the factory starts is production because they have enough production capacity.

And it's not that, you know. In one place they start production. And you know, immediately that place starts getting affected.

It doesn't happen like that, because, you know, it's not as if the supplies are not there. The supplies are coming from all over, and they have started operations in the East. Maybe

the supply will improve a little bit, but it's not going to substantially change the scenario on the ground

as of now. Yes, you know they are a serious competitor, as I have all always maintained.

and no, there has been some sales growth, you know, impact, as far as the existing players are concerned, all of us would have been impacted in small measure.

It's our estimate is that you know, Virulla has got about on a Ytd basis

about 3.5% of the market, right? You know, which is.

if you consider 5 main players which consider, you know, which produce the result.

and take also Birla in that

which is the 6th player. Then in that 6 players they have about 3.5%

right on a white key basis.

Now.

you know anything or substantially the growth of any of the companies. It does impact to the extent of 3 and a half percent. So

that impact is there. To some, some of the players may get impacted by 5%. Some of the players may get impacted by 2 and a half percent.

But it is, the broad range is in that category, right? So that's the growth rate impact. Which is there so far

right

now, if you do away with that. With the paint industry, there have been 3 major problems this year.

Number. One problem was that you know, there was a price decrease which we had done, which is about 5% last year, right? Which lasted right up to January.

which has been impacted the paint growth rate.

The second is the slowdown in the market itself.

which is to the tune, in my opinion, of 3 and a half odd percentage is on account of the slowdown.

So 5 plus 3 and a half, 8 and a half.

These 2 are temporary in nature.

These 2 are completely temporary in nature.

5%. The price decrease is already off from middle of January. So therefore, this quarter itself, we will see that impact.

The second part is related to the slowdown.

That also is temporary, hopefully, and that with the budget that we have seen, you know, we look forward that you know a large part of that will get bridged from April onwards.

So, therefore, one part is going to go away largely in this quarter itself, and the second temporary part is possibly going to change scenario from April onwards.

as far as the competition is concerned, that will continue.

that for every player, as I said, is different for different players.

In our case, our impact is slightly lesser than the 3 and a half percent.

So we are impacted to that extent right, and that impact will continue going forward as well. We don't anticipate that going away

completely, but, as I have always said it 2 and a half to 3% is expected that the growth rate will be impacted by the new entrant.

Then we have to ensure that we restore that growth rate through our own measures, our own initiatives.

our own initiatives in terms of distribution, expansion at a much faster pace than what we do normally.

and also the urban initiative which we have undertaken.

We are reasonably confident that we should be able to overcome this.

You know, backlog of 2 and a half to 3%. So that you know, we don't get into any problem of growth.

This is my reading of the situation.

it will remain, possibly in that band of 15 to 17%. That's the guidance that we maintain.

You know, we have maintained that. And we are continuing to maintain that.

This is very helpful. Many thanks.

Thank you for taking my question so firstly, congrats on your new head office looks quite nice hope to come down and meet you soon there

and again congrats on your strong volume performance. There seems to be a very stark difference between you know, Burgess volume performance versus all the other listed players this quarter.

Can you help us dissect and understand why this divergence?

Is it due to the regional presence that you have versus other players? Or and or is it because grassives entry? You know. You know, maybe a little more in the other regions, and probably less in

your region. Or your stronger markets. Can any insights on?

Why the divergence in volume growth versus everybody else, Sir.

but that is not the primary reason for the difference, because that, as I said, their total share, as I said, is 3.4% right? Ytd.

so you know, even on this quarter, probably it would have been higher, because this quarter they did. You know better than what they have been doing in the previous quarter.

so probably it would have gone up somewhat. But still it's not the major in force which is impacting everyone else. Right? You know, so different players have got impacted differently

in our case, you know, I think the divergence is coming out of 2 factors. Primarily, distribution expansion which is happening at a very good pace, you know, I would say, and in fact, we would like to accelerate that further.

and the second is the urban initiative that we have undertaken.

Small results have started coming. I think it will further give better results going forward.

also, the mix seems to have deteriorated further. You know, in your case? At negative. If I'm assuming a minus 2 pricing. So firstly, would we have a minus 2 pricing this quarter and which ideally should become a plus 2 from next quarter. So that's 1, and maybe why are we still seeing a small dip in the gross margins? you know. Despite higher sales of exterior plates and premium pins.

tends to pick up momentum in terms of luxury, product sales and premium product sales. So the base effect is also there, you know.

Last year also, these products would have sold very well the growth rate, you know, as we have seen, for most consumer categories haven't done anything substantially great there, so the growth rate has been very limited as far as this exterior category or premium category or luxury category is concerned, especially on the interior luxury

we had a muted growth. We had a good growth in the exterior category, but in the interior luxury, category, and the premium category. The growth was relatively muted.

Also the fact that you know, when you are talking of the volume Value Gap, that you are seeing, as I explained to you.

Part of it is price decrease. But you are rightly saying that you know what about the balance? The balance is not because the mix is deteriorated as such. But the fact is that you know tile adhesive as a category did not exist 2 year back. But that volume is large, and it is coming, and it's a good, profitable item. So we continue to sell that

the second is texture coatings. Now we were not present in that particular segment, but in projects, in, especially in the western and southern parts of India, texture coatings is has become sort of de rigor for almost every building you know. So now the texture coating volumes goes up. This is a low value item, but high volume. So therefore.

all of these these are nuances which is difficult to explain individually. But you know these are the things which impact the volume.

Value gap that you are seeing, and you will see that you know, for most of the leading decorative players. This type of

gap will happen if they sell these type of products. If they're not selling. Obviously the volume value Gap will be less so. It is not because the mix is deteriorating or improving. It is because of the sort of products that is being sold as of now, which is distorting the picture a little bit. But that's about 2, 2 and a half percent distortion, because of that.

and 4 to 5% is due to the price decrease, which was there that 4 to 5% will go away, the 2 to 2 and a half percent will remain so in terms of volume value differential. You can expect a 2 and a half percent to sustain in the next few quarters.

Got it. So got it. Thank you. So, lastly, okay.

You know we are at 7.4 or something in volume. I expect that we will possibly go up more towards the double digit figure in terms of volume, growth, and in value growth. As I said, there will be a difference here of 2 and a half, 3%. So we expect bit single digit growth in terms of value. Growth.

Exxonobil, and and you know.

so we are not, therefore, a serious contender in this race as of now. This is all that I can tell you.

roughly, about 3 and a half percent. So will it be kind of a fair estimate to under. Say that, you know, the leader would have lost more than 3 and a half percent market share given the fact that you know, our you know, value share has been at least, you know, been better versus the the others. Given that our growth has been better versus the others.

Obviously, you know, there will be. The net sum is 100% right. If someone gains, someone has to lose. We are not losing that. All. That's all that I can say. What has happened and who's lost. You know that you can easily calculate and find out for yourself.

a potential new entrance from, you know the the buyer of the Akzonobel. Can it lead to? You know, further kind of a competition in the space that we already seen.

Problem because exxonobil has already been in existence in India.

for you know, more possibly 100 years or so. Right, you know. So whoever acquires it will be running that same company with same brands, you know. Maybe they will do some plus minus. But it's not going to change dramatically the picture. This is not a newcomer who is coming into the industry. So I see no

major issue there, you know, unless you know. There is some major change happening on the ground. Only time will say what happens.

But as of now. I don't see anything majorly happening. There.

We have the next question from the line of Amit Purohit, please go ahead.

Am I audible, sir?

who is taking up a Berger paint. I mean, I'm just asking this, because now he has an option to look at, and a Berger. So what does a Berger brings on the table? Or he's an existing paint dealer who is becoming an exclusive dealer, or is he the altogether new new

individual who is entering into the paint industry as a becoming a fresh dealer. Just if you could highlight that, and and also on the urban strategy. Is there a link towards this exclusive dealer and the urban strategy? Anything that sort.

the 1st task is to get, you know, dealers to stock and sell our products, because, though a customer might want this product from, you know, because he he might have used it in the past, or he likes the product, but the availability becomes a major issue. The same holds true for even the painters or contractors

when they don't get material at short notice, they also try to avoid this particular brand. So, therefore, getting foothold into the market and getting your some of the dealers to stock, this material becomes very important. The second is, you know, having got him to stock, we need to also ensure that the sales happen from his counter.

That's something which we, you know, earlier days we never used to work on that. But we have learned our lessons from, you know various experiments that we did, and we focus on getting the sales going or the being sustained. So based on these 2,

we are looking at all options. It's not, you know, it can be competition dealer it can be, you know, non dealer, it can be someone who is interested, very enthusiastic, energetic, who wants to come into the paint business. So combination of any factor is fine as long as we get good representation across points.

and then we work with them, you know, to ensure that the sales happen so other details I will not be able to share with you, but you know we we are quite hopeful that this will work very well for us.

leader has also indicated till the time the high single digit market share is not achieved. They are also not considering the new player as to be serious enough

so so from that perspective, we see that say, maybe second half of

of the next financial year there could be.

Assuming that continued, then there could be some activity on competitive intensity which may arise, and and the increments also start indicating some kind of pressure on moral things. So I just want your thoughts on one on the the openness of or are you looking when the demand

3 stores to high double digit. You're looking to re-look at 15 to 17% kind of maybe. Look at lower end of the 15 to 17, or you would.

I still believe that that should not be a challenge. Given your urban initiative and premiumization towards exterior paints that will cover up for that.

always indicated that, you know. We are not interested in this game of, you know, no profit or less profit. And you know, trying to do some sale, you know. Somehow, that's not what we are, you know, interested in. We are looking at, you know, doing it sensibly so sales and market share. As I have said, we have managed to gain, even in this situation.

even with competition even with, you know the new competitor, if you add them up also, we have gained market share over last year, so there is nothing much

to worry on that count. You know I unlike you, know what other people have said. I take them very seriously. I think they're a serious competitor. Whether they reached, you know, high single digit.

When they reach you know they will possibly reach there, you know, 2 years, 3 years down the line, maybe. But the issue is, you know, how long can they sustain these losses that they are incurring that has to be seen?

There will be huge losses there, you know this year itself for them, and how much, how much time they can incur these losses has to be seen. We want to grow profitably. Our logic is very simple. You know.

We carry on with our work. We carry on with our growth rate both in sales and maintain good profits. That's that's how we would look at it!

These are costs which are, you know, of the nature which are non essential. I would say

we have looked at each of those areas, you know, and and try to conserve as much as possible. As you can well understand. These are challenging times, and therefore, you know, more work needs to be done around those.

There are large work, you know. In fact, you know, if you look at our advertisement spend, which doesn't come separately broken.

But in many cases people have reduced their ad spends. We have maintained our ad spends at no levels which were there earlier as well. But there are other areas where we have cut back, which I think, you know, we can cut back. And those are areas which are easily the overheads have been reduced to a large extent. Some amount of technology has been brought in. Some, you know.

new startups have helped us in, you know, generating savings there. So some of these are happening which will, you know, enable us to.

In going forward also you will see these costs being kept under control.

Or could you give us some qualitative comments on region wise. How did that demand play out for you?

Like the west. We we struggled a bit this quarter.

but you know otherwise. Most other locations. We had decent growth.

3rd quarter, including East, as you said, you know. Yes, we had some growth in the East as well this time.

We have the next question from the line of Tejash Shah. Please go ahead.

congratulations, for the new office looks very classy and and

So a key pillar of our strategy for last few quarters which we have called out is disproportionate focus on urban expansion.

So any number that we are running with in terms of how many dealers we want to add, or in percentage terms, what growth or what expansion we are targeting in that part of the market. That's 1 and second, let's say, the addition that we would have done last year. How's the retail offtake in all those counters? And how's the health of the inventory in some of those additions that we would have done last year.

mostly is consumed in urban markets, right, you know. But what we have done is we have selected some of these markets, defined them as urban, where we are relatively weak in terms of market share, and called them our urban markets. So it's not like

paint gets, you know, used in rural huts or something it is always used in, mostly in urban markets, but it can go down to tier 2 tier 3. Those are also towns. Those are also urbanized.

but you know, the maximum concentration in our effort has been on key markets where we are relatively weak. But the potential is very large. So that's what we have defined as urban in those markets. You know, we are growing at a faster pace than the normal growth rate, obviously at a substantially faster, because, you know it's a base is very low, and therefore, when you are adding dealers, when you are, you know, sustaining them, you tend to grow much faster in those markets. The second part is

Which you asked is, you know, what are you doing to sustain this right.

and therefore the inventory. In fact, you know it is quite dry. You know you will be surprised, I think, if the market sentiment improves. You know, there will be quite a good sales growth happening, because you know what they used to hold at 1 point of time the inventory levels in most dealer counters have come down. This is, we do a tracking every month

of you know what is being lifted from each dealer counter and that that trend clearly indicates that the stock level has been coming down for most dealers. So the inventory level holding of dealers is at a low level.

As soon as the situation improves and sentiment improves. We might see, you know, a good increase in in impetus and demand.

And so, lastly, on on volume growth that we have reported, which is a very strong number just wanted to clarify. Will it be like to like versus last year, because you also.

you might have, you know, some added value added volume growth coming out of these products. Obviously, that is happening. All of these 2 3 products which are growing much faster is adding to 2, 2 and a half percent. But the rest, you know, is normal volume growth.

Please go ahead.

relatively. Other companies are saying that you know their rural is doing better than urban is doing slightly diminished. Although we know that they have their own ways of you know, categorizing, urban, and rural. But is that this like a similar trend being observed by you as well.

So we might not be the representative sample of, you know the entire industry, you know, as far as we are concerned, we aren't seeing any great difference. In fact, you know, we are seeing a slightly higher growth

for ourselves in the urban market. As I said, slightly lower basis were there, and therefore we are growing at a higher click. There.

and then working with those dealers to ensure that, you know, they stabilize their sales. We work on the secondary side of it and try and grow that market. So so that's that's the whole objective.

but not very significant. As such. You know, there have been some price adjustments, also lowering of prices in some of the other items. So it balances out more or less, you know. So it's not a great, you know, impact so far.

But if it further depreciates, and you know, if the prices also start going up, which is unlikely because oil prices, I think, is likely to remain stable given. What trump has said that you know drill, baby drill and all, you know. So you want to. You know oil prices are unlikely to, therefore sharply move upwards.

It's going to remain in the stable zone.

and therefore, you know, chances of raw material prices.

Misbehaving is low, so I don't see any challenge there, you know. Frankly speaking.

So definitely, Baja has got silk offering also. But Baja can definitely benefit at the top end of the market, plus it has relatively higher share in certain pockets like larger cities in Delhi, Bengal, Rupune, or some cities in Gujarat also. So I guess Metro presence is also relatively better in Western as well as the overall metro presence.

we also have very good presence in many of these markets in the urban markets, in even in the project segment where they play. We also have got very strong presence there, so a class of interest, to some extent, is there?

There are advantages. It is, you know, the value benefit equation, which you have to look at very seriously. Right? You know it's not something which is, you know, coming cheap, or you know, you can just take that risk very easily. So, having weighed everything very carefully, you know, looking at the value, benefit analysis that we did for ourselves. We did not find, you know it attractive enough for us. It may be very attractive for others, but for us. It was not sounding very attractive.

while the urban Slowdown is well documented and shared by companies across other industries as well. For some reason paints is turning out to be much weaker than even other consumer categories. So what I wish to know is, are there any other nuances that you have observed in this cycle which is causing the Slowdown to be deeper than what you would normally expect.

this question has been, you know, asked repeatedly. I've explained. But let me try and explain to you again, you know, and in fact, you know, right at the beginning I said the same thing. See, you know normally what was happening was when the Gdp was, say, growing at 7%. As you rightly said, one and a half times of that, which is 10.5% was the value growth of the paint companies or 11%. You can say

in that 11%, there was a volume growth of possibly 9% and a 2% price inflation which used to happen, and that used to take it to 11% right? This was the trend line which was there.

you know, for the last many years. So always there used to be. Price increases because oil prices will go up and there will be some price increase happening in most years. So 2 to 3% will come out of that and 9 to 10% volume growth will happen. So you'll get 1112% of value growth happening right through the years.

Now this year there have been 3 peculiarities which has impacted the paint industry.

One was, there is, instead of a value growth. We have a value dip of 5%. Right? So when you have a volume growth of 10%, you are only getting a value growth of 5%. So you see on the oh, it is only 5% growth. So earlier, it was one and a half times. Gdp. Now it has become less than Gdp.

Then you have a competition, which is picking out 3 and a half percent from the total market right? So that reduces it further by 3 and a half percent, because that industry. It is there. But since they are not publishing results, and you're not seeing it in the overall industry, the growth seems, you know, coming down by another 3 and a half percent. Right? So when you remove from 10% volume 5 and 3 and a half, it comes to

one and a half percent. So you know, that is why it looks like Gdp over is underperforming.

That is why I explained that this is going to go away. This 5% is temporary.

So once that goes away, you will see a much closer approximation, possibly equal to Gdp and or slightly ahead of Gdp. It will become, and then then other 2 problems which are plaguing this one is the consumption slowdown itself hopefully, that will change from April onwards.

The other one, which is the competitive intensity which has gone up, and therefore some share loss that will continue, you know, for most players, and therefore that cannot be avoided. These 2 will restore itself back so the price decrease. Impact will go away hopefully. There will be some price increase impact.

you know, soon. And and the second part is related to the other factor, which is the sentiment improvement. And in that case, again, you will see Gdp into 1.5. So there is no permanency of this whole thing. It is purely temporary, it will restore itself very soon.

cycle. Change hasn't changed. Cycle remains. The people are still. Only thing which has changed a little bit is the, you know, sentiment which, for all consumer categories, as you are aware, has been, you know, little bit slower than normal once that comes back. And once this price differential of 5% goes away, you will see a change scenario.