Analyzing...
Thank you, Mahendra. Good afternoon, everyone.
For the 4th Quarter ending March ‘25, our operating revenue witnessed a strong growth of 14%, reaching a record high of Rs. 223 crores compared to the same period last year. For the full year, this figure stood at Rs. 842 crores, the growth of 10% on a year-on-year basis. The total operating revenue which includes income from sale of recyclables and RDF, but excluding contract revenue stood at Rs. 247 crores for the quarter, reflecting a 15% year-on-year growth.
And for the full year, this number stood at Rs. 933 crores, a growth of 8%. In FY '25, we have observed a shift in our revenue composition. MSW C&T contributed 61% of the revenue with processing accounting for 27% and contracts and other at 12%. This reflects a change from FY '24, where these numbers were 62%, 23% and 14% respectively. Our diversified revenue streams continue to offer strategic flexibility and positions the company for long-term sustained growth.
The group reported an EBITDA of Rs. 58 crores for the quarter, which is a 33% year-on-year growth with margins at 23%. For FY '25, the EBITDA stood at Rs. 220 crores reflecting year-
Page 6 of 15 on-year growth of 9% and EBITDA margin of 23% in line with our stated guidance. These results underscore its efficiency and the financial discipline adopted by the company.
For the quarter, the profit before tax before exceptional items stood at Rs. 25 crores, reflecting a substantial growth of 90% on a year-on-year basis. And for the full year, the profit before tax was Rs. 95 crores versus Rs. 109 crores. On a year-on-year basis, this decline was primarily attributable to higher interest and depreciation expenses following the commissioning of WTE and the C&T projects. Notably, cash profit before tax has increased by 16% to Rs. 188 crores, further enhancing of financial flexibility and resilience. The PAT for the quarter was Rs. 46 crores, a growth of 53% on a year-on-year basis and for FY '25, it stood at Rs. 101 crores, a marginal growth of 1%.
During 4th Quarter, the company achieved an extraordinary gain of Rs. 23.9 crores, a direct result of a decisive victory in arbitration proceedings upheld by the Bombay High Court. This landmark outcome reaffirms our uncompromising commitment to upholding tender conditions and set the strong precedent for our continued adherence to the higher standards of compliance.
As of March ‘25, the group's gross debt stood at approximately Rs. 473 crores with cash and bank balances of around Rs. 132 crores, resulting in net debt of approximately Rs. 341 crores.
This indicates a net debt to equity of 0.4x. The group’s weighted cost of debt is approximately 9.1% and the DSOs remained stable at 101. Cash flow from operations post taxes has improved by 34% year-on-year to Rs. 187 crores from Rs. 140 crores last year.
Looking ahead, we remain steadfast in our commitment to operational efficiency and excellence.
The efficient performance of our WTE project, the successful commercial launch of our C&D project, the commencement of revenue generation from our new C&T contract effectively helps us to report stable growth going forward. Escalation, which is a part of business, has been slightly sticky in the last period, which we feel can be made-up with the appropriate approvals coming in time. We anticipate steady and sustainable progress in the upcoming fiscal years, which is aided by a healthy orderbook position of approximately Rs. 8,300 crores, which further reinforces our confidence in achieving the company's long-term strategic objectives.
That concludes our remarks. We would now like to open the floor for Q&A.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Our first question comes from the line of Atul Daga from Daga Securities. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. So just two questions from my side. Have we recently submitted any bids for new contracts if could you provide some insights into? And which projects are we focusing on collection and transportation or processing considering that processing is a better margin product?
Yes. Good afternoon. When it comes to processing projects, we have already submitted 3 waste to energy tenders, 2 in the South and 1 in the Western part of the country and 2 more waste to energy projects we are currently working on the tenders. So, there are 5 processing projects to
Page 7 of 15 answer your question. And in the Collection and Transportation segment, as we speak, we are currently working on the Mumbai C&T tenders, the 8 packages in Mumbai, they have come up last week. We will be bidding for it. And apart from this, there is also one package in South of India, which we will be bidding for.
Sir, another question from my end. As our objective, which is to reduce dependency on municipal corporations, so are we actively looking on any new opportunities and if we are, then can you please share the update on the tyre recycling and vehicle scrapping front as well?
Thank you for asking this question because as we had always maintained that we are always trying to look for non-municipal clients. As we speak, we are in the advanced stage of discussion with a very large Indian corporate to set-up a municipal solid waste to steam project. So, unlike a waste to energy project where we process RDF to generate electricity, this would be producing process steam and this corporate would be using it for their captive manufacturing facility. This is a project that we are very excited about. And coming to the end of life vehicle scrapping and so on, as we had mentioned in the previous earnings call, we wanted to buy land for the project.
We are pleased to announce that we have identified one piece of land and we should be closing this deal in the next couple of months, and hopefully in the next earnings call, we will be giving an update on that.
That was helpful. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rupam Jaiswal from Investwell Agents. Hello. Good afternoon.
Good afternoon, sir. Sir, I just had one question like in this current quarter, you got a long due receivable of Rs. 4 crores and you got an interest payment around Rs. 23 crores. So like this, how many cases are pending with you all like the long due cases?
So we have one large case which is pending in the Supreme Court for the final hearing. So that would be to the tune of around Rs. 15 crores. And additionally there are around Rs. 19 crores of unbilled revenues waiting confirmation from the clients. So these are the 2 large revenue blocks, which is still outside for which we are awaiting clarification and confirmation from the legal body and from the clients.
So like how long is this case pending like this Rs. 4 crores was just the book value. But you got an interest payment of Rs. 23 crores, like how long was this case pending with you all? This was close to 14 years for us.
Page 8 of 15 14 years and the rest cases which you have set about Rs. 15 cores and the rest unbilled revenue, so it is all the book value?
Now, in the case of the Rs. 15 crores amount, we don't expect any interest payouts from there because this has been cleared from the Standing Committee of that particular Municipal Corporation. So we don't foresee any additional revenue from that. And on the escalation amount, I think this will keep on adding as and when the time increases.
So these are the only two cases which are pending with you all guys as of now?
Yes, these are only two points and these are all pre 2016 events. So as and post 2016, our contracts have been much more cleaner and much more transparent in terms of interpretation.
So that helps the tendering team and the client.
Yes, sir, that that was my only question. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rohit Maheshwari from Tata AIG General Insurance. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Good evening, Rohit.
Sir, first question I have, you said in your opening remark that you have an order book of Rs. 8,300 crores, yes? Yes.
So can you give a break up of this Rs. 8,300 crores and the time given duration of this Rs. 8,300 crores to get executed?
So of the Rs. 8,300 crores, on a percentage basis, close to 58% is having a long tail which will expire by 2040. The balance would be executed over the next 12 years. Next? 12 years.
It takes us 15 years, on an average, it will be 13-14 odd years? Yes.
Sir, just to understand because maybe you are in a sector where the tam is too large can make, but I don't think so the tam is a problem, but the I guess the problem is considering the size of your company, we are not seeing a growth of like 15%-17% type of growth at the topline and
Page 9 of 15 the bottom-line level. So does the expectation of investors from your company of 15%-17% is wrong and we should tone it down to 7%-8% type of growth or something, I am going to wrong direction?
So let me put this into perspective. If you were to look at our last 5-year trend, my revenue in 2021 was Rs. 480 odd crores and I am doing around Rs. 960 odd crores today. So in a span of 5 years, I think I have almost doubled my revenue. Now, if you were to look around year-on-year basis, FY '24 was Rs. 890 crores and FY '25 was Rs. 960 crores, so not a big number. As we have been reiterating we cannot show a linear growth of 15%-20% on a year-on-year basis. We will be showing CAGR growth, which will be stepped up growth for us because as and when we bag a contract the revenue starts coming in C&T business after 8 months and in case of processing after 2.5 years. So we will not be able to show a 10%, 15%, 20% year-on-year growth, but if you look at CAGR growth, that is the historical trend and that is the pathway that we have.
The company's balance sheet also supports such kind of large jumps in new projects and that is how you will see the net debt to be kept at 0.4 and not at 1.1 consistently. So the moment we get new contracts which meets our threshold returns, which meets our risk parameters, which meets our internal milestones, then we go with those projects, and we deploy the capital adequately.
This is a very tough industry when it comes to managing waste and it is a tough industry, given the fact that it is B2G kind of a concept.
So basically, if I got you right, so basically, I think it is not a company to see from year-on-year perspective, you need to see the company from a 5-year perspective and on a 5-year perspective, the CAGR can be 15%-17% odd, year-on-year cannot be a CAGR of 15%. So this is what the key take away I can take out?
Yes, that is a good way to summarize this.
Sir, second is, I guess I have read somewhere in FY '25, you had some revenue from construction and demolition, yes? Yes. So what was that amount?
We normally don't comment on unit wise numbers, but on a broad basis, we handled around 250-300 tons per day for the last 4 months. And the average realization would be around Rs. 1,405 per ton. That is our trend. So we expect that in the next 6 months, this number of 250-300 tons per day kind of processing will increase to 600-700 tons. So the plant is designed or capable of processing close to 700 tons per day, but the quantity here will ramp up over a period of time. It is a 20-year project for us.
But the contract value will always be between Rs. 50-Rs. 75 crores, correct?
Page 10 of 15 That assumes only tonnage for tipping fees. There is also additional revenue from sale of byproducts like M-sand and your rocks and aggregates. So realization of that will also be something that will add to the topline.
I would say that in our business plan, we are working with the 600 tons per day kind of number.
So with the kind of tipping fee that we have, we will have about Rs. 30-Rs. 32 crores of annual revenue.
And can I just to like, one step before I was asking 15%-17% CAGR, so do you see your company in next 5 years to be a topline of Rs. 2,000 crores type of topline and the bottom-line of like Rs. 200 odd crores plus bottom-line?
Rohit, if you were to look at the kind of projects that we are bidding for, it will be very ambitious for us to say those numbers today. So I think as the time goes, we will be in a better position to say numbers and stick our neck out. Thank you, sir. I am done.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ketan R Chheda who is a Retail Investor.
Hi, thank you for your opportunity. My first question is with regards to the debt and the cash that we have on the balance sheet. So I believe we have about Rs. 130 odd crores of cash. Do we have any plans to retire any of the debt so that our interest cost can reduce in the next financial year?
So of the Rs. 132 crores of debt, bulk of them have been given as collateral for bank guarantees and earnest money deposit for ongoing contracts. Rs. 28 crores of cash is recently received as of the month end from the arbitration process that we won. So the plan is to use the capital in a very judicious manner. There are a couple of upcoming projects which Mahendra had mentioned. So we will be using this as an equity contribution towards those new projects. And if nothing fructifies, then yes, we will be applying the same towards debt repayment.
And just a continuation to that, we were to receive the VGF amount for our PCMC WTE plant.
Have you received the full consideration of the viability gap funding amount?
So out of the Rs. 50 crores, we have received Rs. 45 crores of the VGF funds and the same has been used to retire debt and provide collateral to the lender. The balance Rs. 5 crores is due in the next 6 months’ time, which the company is following it up.
And my another question is, with respect to the Kanjur Court case now again, there is a very hypothetical scenario, so please bear with me, but say, for example, in a worst case basis, if the Supreme Court also kind of gives a similar verdict and we have to cancel this project of the
Page 11 of 15 Kanjur, so what is it that we will receive for the termination of the contract? What would be the quantum of the amount that you would receive?
So, we actually are engaging one of the big four for doing an independent valuation exercise for the same for the same reason. But as you rightly said, this is a hypothetical situation because as you would have noticed that BMC officially had made a statement that the city would come to a standstill if this project had to stop because they have no other alternative site to serve. But we are very clear and as we said also in our commentary that in case, the worst-case scenario, if the project is terminated, then as per the concession agreement our rights are protected, and we will seek termination payments. The amount invested and the loss of revenue. So, to get to a number, we are taking help of one of the big four audit firms.
As Mahendra mentioned the legal opinion clearly states that the operator will get compensation for the losses from premature cessation of work, any decommissioning cost incurred that will be reimbursed. Any third-party claim from lenders will also be reimbursed. Invested capital and foregone revenue for the remaining concession period will also be paid. So basically, the operator doesn't have anything to lose here the city will Sure. And my last question is on your tyre recycling and the vehicles garbage project. So is there a tentative timeline by when we can start commercializing and start booking revenues for that project? I know it is delayed due to your land acquisition process, but just any timelines that you have set right now as of now.
Yes, as I mentioned, we have already identified the land. We expect to close the land deal in the next 4 months. And then it is 6-9 months process for implementation of the project. So you can say from FY '27 onwards, it will be the operational phase for the project.
Sure. Alright. Thank you so much. All the best. Those are my questions.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Karan Sharma from KS Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the opportunity, Sir. I just had one question. So you know we have always guided to the market that we would be growing our operating revenue by around 20%. But this year we could achieve only 10%. So what is the future outlook as in like for next year and the years to come?
So we have been guiding at 20%-25% CAGR growth on our core revene, not a year-on-year growth. As I mentioned, it is very difficult for us to maintain that kind of year-on-year growth.
So if you look at a bunch of 5 years, I would say is a total CAGR growth is what we have been guiding and that is something that we feel, a 20%-25% is achievable based on the project pipeline that we have. In the current financial year, if you look at the soft-core operating revenue of 10%, that is mainly because of few of the clients escalation amounts not getting recognized in the
Page 12 of 15 reported period because we are still awaiting clarification and confirmation from the client. So once the same were to come, the same will be recorded in the current financial year.
Got it. That is it from my side. Thank you so much, sir.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Soumya S from Insightful Investments.
Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to clarify the 250-300 ton per day collection that we do, what was the realization that you said for the same?
We are paid tipping fee for the waste collected, transported and processed. So the tipping fee for that is Rs. 1,400 per ton which BMC pays.
Understood. And another clarification was when you spoke about the Rs. 8,300 crores order, which is to be split completion by FY '40 and over the next 12 years. What was that exactly regarding? Which project is it?
So this is a cumulative of all the projects that we have. We have 26 projects of different tenures, and we have an existing tonnage and we have an existing rate. So if you multiply that, this is the total value of the project that we need to execute based on contracts that we already signed or executing as of today.
So this is the value of the project which still needs to be executed over the years Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Sevanth Bommannagari, an Investor.
Sir, my question is like based on more direction wise. So generally the amount is in the processing contracts, right, it is not in the C&T, C&T is like the price war, right? So why are we not winning or more processing based contracts like the Kanjurmarg plant?
As I mentioned earlier that we are currently bidding for 5 projects, 4 of which are waste to energy projects and 1 is a waste pre-processing project, so there are 5 processing tenders that we are currently bidding. Over and above that as I mentioned, we also are in advanced stage of discussion with a private corporate for waste to steam project. So that would be, you can say private entity merchant plant. Any revenue size from that? I am sorry.
Page 13 of 15 Any revenue size for that corporate thing?
No. It is too early. We are currently finalizing the technical and the commercial conditions. And as and when it matures, then we will be happy to share the details.
My second question is what is the revenue from WTE plant in FY '25? It is Rs. 62 crores. Can I consider EBITDA of 40%?
We normally don't comment on plant wise EBITDA numbers over here, but 40% is lower range for such projects.
Sir, my last question is from now on, we will bid more for WTE plans than collection and transportation and the processing contracts because the more contracts are being bid for WTE plants, is that the right statement?
No, we actually want to have a balance of the two because both have their advantages and disadvantages. But in collection and transportation contracts, we are also very choosy. So that is why we are bidding only for large cities or large municipalities who have the ability to pay and have a good track record of payments.
Can I ask one more question? So in your opinion, how many cities are doing processing like Mumbai? 5 I have already mentioned, right, so you can say maybe another 4 or 5 are in advanced stage of tender preparation. So you can say 10 may be.
No, my question was more based on this Tier 2 and tier 3 cities, right? They don't process waste, they just dump in the open grounds, right? So why are they not tendering, processing contracts is I mean what my question was?
That got to do with the affordability of those cities, but it is not that every city is looking at only waste to energy. There are several cities which are looking at composting as an option. They are looking at MRF and composting and RDF as the solutions. They are looking at Bio-CNG projects as a processing option. So there are combinations. Different cities have chosen different kind of waste processing technologies and processes. Waste to energy happens to be one of them, which is a good solution for a city of, let us say for a size of 10,00,000 plus population. Yes. Got it, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Ronak Shah from Equirus Securities Private Limited.
Page 14 of 15 Sir, my first question is regarding the volume. So when we look at to the 4th Quarter volume growth, the total tonnage what we have handled plus processed is at around 19% odd. So this is the like-to-like comparison or something which I am missing over here? I am sorry. Can you speak clearly?
Yes, sir. So for the quarter, the total tonnage including the collection and processing, the growth is at 19% odd. So this is a like-to-like comparison or something which we are missing over here?
Yes, this is not like-to-like comparison because we have adjusted the numbers for the Mangalore project, which had a run off. So this is on our existing contracts that we are talking about that this is the growth on our existing numbers of the live contracts. So that is why you see a disparity in our volumes growth versus revenue growth.
So from like-to-like basis, what can be the steady state growth going forward in next 2-3 years?
If we were to work on our existing projects on the C&T business with escalation and the volume growth, we will be looking at anywhere between 8%-11% depending upon the escalation again.
We will normally see volumes growth of around 3%-4% and the escalation gives additional 3%- 8% depending upon the minimum wage change and the HSD component price swings.
Got it. And sir, my second question is regarding to the margin. So when we compare the guidance vis-a-vis the actual performance, our core operating EBITDA margin excluding the other income stores between the range of 20%-21% odd. So how company is seeing this margin panning out over the next 2-3 years?
So bulk of our CAPEX at our processing units are almost at the fag-end of our life. So I would say the core EBITDA margins and the reported EBITDA margins should kind of merge over the next 2-3 quarters. I think post monsoon there may be an additional 2 quarters of CAPEX, but post that we don't foresee significant CAPEX movements in our existing processing contracts.
So I can expect similar 20%-21% kind of the EBITDA margin?
No, actually the core EBITDA margin will move towards 22%-23%.
Got it. That is it from my side, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jose Jacob for closing comments.
I want to take the moment to thank our dedicated team for their incredible contribution to our success. Your tireless efforts have been essentially nurturing our goals, and we are building on that momentum. Our focus remains on delivering consistent results and creating long-term value for our shareholders. We are committed to investing in innovation and leveraging our expertise
Page 15 of 15 to strengthen our market position and drive sustainable growth. I am particularly excited about a path towards a cleaner and greener future. And I wish you all a very pleasant evening and thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Antony Waste Handling Cell Limited, that concludes this conference.
Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.